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Some parts of this article deal with misogyny, sexism, and harassment, while other aspects of it respond to experiences of down-right douche-baggery.

It doesn’t apply to all of you, but a number of you engage in it and many of you are bystanders.

I know a lot the community doesn’t want to talk about this stuff. I know I didn’t personally try to build a bridge between wannabe-crypto-users and hackers so I could deal with shitful sexism, misogyny and down-right crappy behavior.

I know most people would rather just delete a sexist webpage or image, apologize for the offensive comment, or shitty behavior and move on. Again.

But things aren’t changing for the better. And pasting anti-harassment rules on conference wikis doesn’t seem to be making a dent in obviously unacceptable behavior of some arseholes.

Yes, of course, there are arseholes in all communities. But some communities make sexists, misogynists, harassers and general arseholes truly unwelcome.

Unfortunately, the hacker community seems to flounder at making progress in the area of human relations.

“We’re trying!”

Yeah, I hear you, but it’s not good enough. Not good enough by far. 

Inequality doesn’t just spring up without a context. And women don’t just opt out of hacking and hacker communities because of the tired rhetoric “maths and hacking is boys’ business.”

No, women stay the hell away from hacker-spaces, conferences and tech initiatives because of on-going experiences of misogyny, abuse, threats, put downs, belittlement, harassment, rape.

Last infosec conference I went to – there was six females and over 1000 males in attendance. My female friend roped me into pretending I was her lesbian lover, simply to get a guy to let-the-fuck-go of her hand.

“Oh, I’ve never experienced misogyny at a hacker conference”, says someone.

Well great for you. Many of us have. Including myself.

So much, that last night, I quit as an organizer of Cryptoparty.

It was an initiative I cared about and was deeply involved with setting up.

And yes, after I quit I said “fuck” a whole lot, and cried an ocean, then packed my son the toddler off to my mother’s house for the night and got profoundly drunk.

And now I’m ready to talk about the arse-hattery that basically broke me over the last few months.

I’m not some wall-flower or “pearl-clutching” provoker of needless moral outrage.

As a teenager I lived in youth refuges and on the streets. I’m unwilling to put up with bullshit

I have no problem fighting back. I’m not scared of speaking up either.

So what went wrong?

Cryptoparty was created one very boring evening, in a very open and inclusive conversation on Twitter, a little over four months ago.

I thought if the gap between cryptographers, hackers and users could be bridged, perhaps some activists would have a chance at scaling back aspects of surveillance. If we could teach people how to use crypto – we could maybe begin to organize without surveillance.

I paid a friend to set up a wiki and Cryptoparty was born. Decentralised, DIY, psuedo-leadership. All the catchy keywords. It felt exciting. It took off. People were drawn to the concept. Beer, chips, party.

And it seemed so easy to set up a Cryptoparty. The only requirement was a venue, and people willing to learn.

My rule was “counter negative criticism with unbearably nice optimism.” Anyone who whinged about something was asked to fix it themselves. A “do-ocracy” supposedly.

As soon as the Cryptoparty wiki went online I asked that an anti-harassment statement be included, much to the expressed chagrin of some men. They said it wasn’t necessary. They said they’d help deal with harassment personally, if it happened (by the way – they didn’t.)

Later on, it was one of those same men who’d been so resistant to the idea of an anti-harassment declaration on the wiki – who participated in bullying and talking down to me.

Meanwhile, Cryptoparties were springing up around the world faster than I could keep track.

Anyway, at some point I broke – something in me broke or something broke me.

There were lots of little things, piling on me day by day. But let me try to explain the events of the last four months a little for the readers at home.

Here goes…

A number of Cyptoparty organizers regularly talked down to me when I questioned their choices, suggested I wasn’t qualified to comment on their actions.

And then they left me to face public scrutiny when the shit hit the fan over their stupid decisions:

Some examples:

“We’re writing a Cryptoparty manual, it’ll be crowd-sourced by a limited group over four days…” (What? When were they planning to run the peer review before publication? Never?)

“Ohai, I’m running a Cryptoparty at Google and Mozilla.” (Cryptoparty is supposedly commercially non-affiliated and non-profit. Allowing it to be hosted at Google and Mozilla raised a number of issues that were never addressed.)

“Our Cryptoparty has a “no-laptop” rule, to keep users safe.” (Great, fabulous, and how were you planning to help new-comers learn to install crypto-tools?)

“We ran a Cryptoparty with @OpenISP in Tunisia with a real-name policy, funded by USAID.” (What the holy fuck!? @*#*@$&*!!!!!!!!)

You get the picture…

When I communicated about concerns and issues – as well as complaints from Cryptoparty participants peeved with out-of-touch crypto-lecturers who wanted to teach command lines to crypto-newcomers – I got put downs, got brushed off, ignored, told “oh don’t worry, we’ll look after it, it won’t be a problem”, “don’t worry your head about it”, or aggravatingly – told that I wasn’t qualified to judge their choices as I wasn’t a crypto-expert or a hacker.

And I got told to quit. Quite a bit, actually.

And then I got emails telling me to stick to motherhood and tweeting.

When I criticised @RT_Com for airing a segment on Cryptoparty that promoted CryptoCat (an insecure host-based security tool, not a core tool taught at Cryptoparties) – Cryptocat’s founder, Nadim Kobeissi responded:

Screen Shot 2012-12-29 at 9.18.40 AM

I think I may have told him to go bite me.

Eventually we both apologized for niceties sake, but damage done.

I also copped flack for the technically inaccurate aspects of the Cryptoparty manual, despite not having worked on the technical aspects of the book and having suggested to the book’s organizers that the project’s time-frame was too short.

When the issue of technical flaws in the Cryptoparty Manual took off on the LiberationTech email-list I responded: “I didn’t work on the technical aspects of the book. I can’t. I don’t have the right skill set.”

Jacob Appelbaum responded:

“I believe that you are totally able to learn and I think that it is very demoralizing when people say they are *unable* or *unwilling* to learn.”

Jacob continued: “That isn’t to say that you will become a developer of cryptographic protocols.”

Appelbaum’s charming treatise finished with a flourish: “It is to say that many people will need to make choices about security and trusting a vanguard is dangerous. We’re always trusting someone and I realize that reality. I didn’t write my own compiler to compile my email client before sending this email with hand crafted electrons… However the high level view of most of this stuff is well within the grasp of each person – it just requires an interest and *educational resources* that empowers *all people* to learn.”

My response:

“Wait, I’m just trying to remember when I last slept more than 4 hours in a night while trying to educate myself.

I’ve gone from being a Facebook user to running OTR, PGP and Tor all in under a month. Note: I’m a sole parent, without access to child support, no childcare and trying to support myself, my son, put myself through postgraduate studies and contribute to social movements.”

I should point out, Jacob was invited to speak at the first Cryptoparty. He asked me to use PrivateGSM, which I found impossible to install on my phone. 48 hours without sleep, and finally I managed to get it working on a friend’s phone. Hours before the Cryptoparty, Jacob let me know he had yet to install it himself. And then a couple hours later, he messaged to pullout entirely.

Yes, I’m sure he was very busy.

The idea behind Cryptoparty had always been about building a bridge between the crypto-community and new-comers, but increasingly I felt locked-out.

Multiple Cryptoparty IRC channels were created and the people creating them didn’t inform the general public about them, and didn’t add them to the wiki. Some of the servers they placed the IRC channels for Cryptoparties on were almost impossible to access.

One day I made it into one of the Cryptoparty IRC rooms – under a different handle than usual – and watched.

I watched a bunch of male Cryptoparty organisers talking about me – about how I knew nothing about crypto (well, that much was true, but the point had always been to build an educational bridge) and that “real hackers” should be the face of Cryptoparty, not a “mommy-type.”

Mommy-type. As if having a uterus made me ineligible. But I said nothing. I let it slide, for the sake of keeping the peace. I was trying to be “nice.” But I should have said something at the time.

Instead, I decided to drop back a bit from organising Cryptoparties, focus on getting a personal website set up instead.

@SamTheTechie, an organizer from a Cryptoparty in London offered to make me a website, said it’d cost $700. Said it’d only take weeks. I was foolish, I handed the money over, emailed him the links I wanted uploaded and waited. And waited…

When my “web-developer” got in contact next it was to tell me he’d gone on holidays and had presented Cryptoparty at the European Commission’s “No Disconnect” meeting. He hadn’t discussed it with me before-hand. I still have no idea what representations he made to the E.C. about Cryptoparty. He never reported his talk with the E.C. to the Cryptoparty wiki.

When I tried to discuss the issue, he /rage-quit the conversation.

Oh, and he *still* hadn’t done any work on the website either…

(Thanks to @selfagency for creating this website voluntarily and free of charge – it’s appreciated.)

Eventually, a number of friends encouraged me to apply to speak at 29c3 about Cryptoparty. My family offered childcare, on the sole condition I gained a speaker spot at 29c3.

At AUS$3k for a return flight to Europe, affording an airfare would have required me to do some serious crowd-funding – an idea I hated – but was willing to do for the sake of the chance to visit 29c3. It would have been my first holiday since 2008.

In the background of my application to speak at 29c3 was the fact a Sydney-based male Cryptoparty organiser had already posted in an application to speak at 29c3…

In an attempt to bridge the issue, I invited the 29c3 application to be crowd-sourced and agreed to make the talk into a panel – including the individual who had originally put in an application. He sat in on the crowd-sourced process of writing of the application, contributing nothing except criticism to anything I wrote for hours.

He didn’t actually contribute any text himself.

Later, he texted to say he thought he may have a “bit of an ego issue.”

29c3 got in contact, asked if I was willing to take some people off the application for the panel. I felt unable to, under pressure to yield to everyone. The application for a Cryptoparty panel at 29c3 was rejected.

Rejection always sucks, but what really rubbed my nose in it was knowing a group of guys who had treated me like crap, who put me down, talked down to me, criticized and belittled me for months… were heading off to 29c3 and running a Cryptoparty workshop – as opposed to the panel I’d applied for – without me.

And so finally, the last few days…

Watching Jacob Appelbaum on stage talking about the fight against the surveillance state via a glitchy live-stream.

Watching the guy who spent hours criticizing a compromised, crowd-sourced application to 29c3 tweet about how he was on his way to the conference – oh boy!

And watching the person I paid $700 to create a website *months* ago tweet he’d be at 29c3… and how he was looking forward to hanging out with the guy who criticised the Cryptoparty 29c3 application non-stop too (wheeee!)

And no, the “web-developer” still hasn’t built me a website or paid me back.

So by the time 29c3 properly got underway, my nose was more than a little out of joint.

And I stopped sleeping properly.

I reached peak rage as the ‘Creeper Card’ issue unfolded at 29c3. You might have read about the cards, if you were watching the 29c3 twitter stream.

The ‘Creeper Cards’ originated at DefCon in 2011.

Red cards supposedly represented unacceptable behavior.

At 29C3, someone took a bunch of the ‘Creeper Cards’ and made them into a statement all of their own. An image of a headless female body.

Screen Shot 2012-12-29 at 7.47.44 AM

The ‘Creeper Cards’ were ripe for send-up. Let’s face it: the hacker community has begun to rely upon ouiji board-style methods often utilized by individuals with profound communication impairment.

The headless ‘Creeper Card’ female body image is one hell of a statement. It’s implied message: creeps will exist, where-ever and when-ever and despite the initiatives you take, your efforts will be subverted, and all your efforts will be subjugated to place the focus back on your body, your gender…

And I’m sure, if it wasn’t for the fact I was incredibly pissed off about how I’ve been treated by some elements of the hacker community, then maybe I would have found some aspect of the ‘Creeper Card’ image funny. Maybe.

I didn’t.

Instead, when I saw the Headless Female ‘Creeper Card’ image I blacked out with pure rage for more than a few seconds.

And then I publicly railed, in unholy unrestrained outrage for all the ways I had lost my faith in members of the hacker community over the last few months.

I quit Cryptoparty publicly, live on twitter, raging against the slimedom I’d encountered over the last four months.

And then I watched as twitter-users pounded me for the “drama” I’d “caused”, for being a potential “lolcow” for having an emotion, rather than just sweetly tweeting the news like a respectable automation.

Journalist Quinn Norton, responding to my decision to quit Cryptoparty wrote: “You know who is worse than hacker culture and really really doesn’t give a shit? The people we need to use crypto against.”

If the hacker community truly has no respect for the values flushed away by regimes who seek to crack crypto – and no will to fight harassment, discrimination and douchebaggery – then frankly we might as well give up and join the storm-troopers.

I didn’t create Cryptoparty just so a bunch of privileged white boys could exclusively hang out together, slurping down ClubMate while trying to figure out how to anonymously use BitCoin to buy Aderall off SilkRoad.

You shouldn’t need a red card wagged in your face to let you know your behavior is shitful.

Yes, it’s all so very well-meaning, but ultimately “Creeper Cards” are like all other responses so far in most parts of geek community – bullshit tokenism.

For the most part, the study of human relations within hacker culture is marginalised (except of course, the realm of social engineering and scholarly endeavours.)

Human relations issues such as discrimination and harassment are relegated to informal talks, given no space on the main stage – and anti-harassment statements are tacked-on, ignored on most conference websites.

After I quit Cryptoparty people responded I had to stay, had to take responsibility for changing the culture of the community.

I was beyond tact. I howled “fuck you” back at them repeatedly. I was sick to death of being constantly requested to fix other people’s shitty behavior.

I tried to build bridges and at the end of the day was left with the mockery of an option to flap little pieces of red fucking card in the air – and my public howl in despair at the absolute wankery I’d experienced over the last few months.

So you still want a solution to the issue of douchebaggery in hacker-spaces? Really?

Ok. Start by talking about it physically, formally in public spaces. Not just online, on wikis and in small working-groups or in informal talks run by feminists.

In workplaces around the world, human relations departments trot their workforces off to anti-discrimination workshops on a regular basis.

Human Relations departments do it because they know the cost of not formally addressing harassment and discrimination impacts upon the workplace, both in terms of productivity and culture.

I’m not suggesting we send the global hacker community off to a H.R. anti-discrimination/anti-harassment training session (though it probably wouldn’t hurt.)

But if you’re serious about dealing with discrimination and harassment – put it as a topic on the main-stage. I really mean it.

Put the anti-harassment policy as an opening statement at your hacker or infosec conference. Chose a “thought leader” to open the conference each year who will be willing to engage the topic of community standards, even for a few minutes.

Would 10 minutes at the start of a conference explaining anti-discrimination policy and acceptable conduct really infringe on anyone’s “fun”?

It won’t change the culture of asshattery over-night, but it will begin a conversation that’s needed – far more necessary than another article or blog post like this, or more red-card waving in the wind.

Is it selfish for me to quit Cryptoparty? Probably. But I believe Cryptoparty will survive without me.

Unfortunately I couldn’t find another way to get my message across that the culture has to change without walking away, at least for now.

And it is also self-preservation. I couldn’t stand another second of the crap I went through over the last 4 months.

So many of you are fucking bystanders, and my respect for you has gone down the toilet over the last few months. You knew what I went through. And you said nothing. Go to hell.

You’ll drink Club-Mate in your hackerspaces and tinker with stuff.

I’ll go back to child-rearing and tweeting in the lull while the toddler is occupied and amused…for now.

We’ll see what the future brings.

Comments

291 Comments

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  1. JohnO #
    December 29, 2012

    Good for you. Sounds like you absolutely made the right choice. Fuck the privileged white men who only know what they know because their privilege allowed them that possibility.

  2. December 29, 2012

    butthurd!?

    • Bruce McGlory #
      December 30, 2012

      Throw yourself off the roof, bigot. You’re worthless.

    • hd303 #
      December 31, 2012

      Du bist ein Himmelfahrtscommando für dein Knopfpenis, und das ist klar für alles zu sehen. ‘Feminazi’, hahaha. Bernti, du geben das welt schadenfreude. Immer dies wird euer Fluch sein, obwohl Sie verzweifelt würde wünschen, jemanden (oder jemand) Chlamydien anstelle zu geben.

      Translation: lol @ greasy tumblr permavirgin

  3. Marén #
    December 29, 2012

    Kudos!

  4. tweet snipe #
    December 29, 2012

    Damn! I am also a woman in the computer/business community faced same shit. But isn’t this shit some of the behavior anonymous is fighting against? Fuck those guys, start a womens only CryptoParty. Women are smarter, work better in a team environment and are tougher than these douche pussies.

    • snipe tweet #
      December 29, 2012

      Haha. I love reading comments to articles preaching “equality.” You want equality yet you say things like “Women are smarter, work better in a team environment.” I guarantee if someone wrote an article and replaced “women” with “men” in your reply, you would be screaming about how people are sooo sexist against women.

      Stay buttmad.

      • Kakistocrat #
        December 29, 2012

        Have a nice big cookie for pointing out ‘hypocrisy’. Did you actually read the whole article or just come to troll the comments section?

        I don’t know what the evidence says on whether women are inherently better at teamwork than men, but individuals in the hacker community hardly have a sterling reputation for their social skills, do they? The stereotypical image that springs to mind for most people when they hear the word ‘nerd’ is antisocial basement dweller who has trouble interacting with ANYONE socially. And since women are usually socialised to work together, chances are better than 50/50 that they will work better in a team than a gaggle of boys playing up to the ‘nerdy loner’ attitude (whether they’re aware they’re playing up to it or not).

        And MAYBE, just MAYBE, it’s a frustrated push back against being persistently ignored or belittled purely for the ‘crime’ of computing in possession of a uterus. i.e. “They called us dumb. Fuck them, we’re smarter” – that sort of thing.

      • Respect is Everything #
        December 29, 2012

        Insulting others does not help anyone. It is difficult for some men to understand the perspective of the female minority in technology because they are not experiencing the ostracization these women face on a daily basis. We must empathize with the challenges these women face and respect them as equal peers. Enough with the macho immaturity please.

      • December 30, 2012

        @snipe Actually, if you’re female and you’ve made it this far, you probably are smarter and tougher than the douche-bags around you. John Scalzi wrote a great post that explains why: Straight White Male: The Lowest Difficulty Setting There Is. Scalzi has also written several other insightful posts recently about the issues of misogyny in science fiction conventions, for example An Incomplete Guide to Not Creeping.

        If you don’t think it’s a problem, you’re part of the problem.

        • Bruce McGlory #
          December 30, 2012

          Exactly. 100% cosigned.

          • January 2, 2013

            Though the comment above is clearly malicious, I have to say that I believe it’s a huge mistake to slip into fighting sexism with sexism. It is true that if you can replace a group in a statement with another group and suddenly see that the statement was insulting or bigoted, then it’s likely that statement was insulting all along.

            We must always stick to our guns that people should be treated equally regardless of race/gender/whatever. I can well understand that people are angry and want to strike back, but striking back is a trap. Striking back makes others want to strike back at you, and your trapped then in a pointless flamewar.

            If we say that either sex is ‘more intelligent’ than the other than we perpetuate the idea that intelligence is gender-based, we are also open to accusations of hypocrisy. I do have to wonder if the opening comment of this thread, and the reply, are both trolls. I could well believe that people might work in tandem to spread disharmony among us. People love to start fights between others.

            The reference to the SF community is relevant. I’m seeing some shocking stuff being said in that community where the target is white males (e.g. I’ve had people explain to me that there’s “No such thing as sexism towards men” and I see many comments on twitter that if you substituted ‘men’ with ‘women’ people would be agast at). I’m seeing that because I am a white male, so it’s coming at me. If I were a woman or a person-of-color I believe I’d see things differently, because different insults would be coming my way or triggering my spider-sense (for one thing, if you’re not in a particular community you might not even recognize insults aimed at that community, not having the cultural context to spot them).

            Sometimes it seems to me that there are people around out to set us one against another, man and woman, black and white, rich and poor, whatever and whatever. We must commit ourselves to a policy of respect to all, even to those who disrespect us. If we strike back, let us strike back at individuals, not at entire groups of people. Let us not try to steal the enemies clothes and give like-for-like. If we do then we bring ourselves down to their level, and that’s entirely what they want.

        • March 19, 2013

          Thanks for sharing: Straight White Male: the lowest difficulty setting there is…

          too f*cking funny…

          Being a bisexual, weed head, atheist, anarchist, (not an easy setting mind you) I hear you. Trying to talk about white privilege is “difficult” at best. I will remember this for the next time I try and explain it.

          I agree, if you’re not part of the solution on this one, you’re part of the problem.

          This silliness regarding whether or not being a rich white kid you even need encryption, well, you’re missing the point.

          I encrypt everything as a strategy itself. With just 3% of the world using encryption, the entire spook budget would be spent hacking into mostly meaningless data. While we, the info hounds, are still 1.5 steps ahead of them.

  5. Agapevitae #
    December 29, 2012

    I’m so sorry for all this crap. I never participated in any crypto-events, my brain sucks at that sort of thing. Regardless, I’ve been a-twittering for a few years & although I don’t know you your avatar has always been a most welcome one in a sea of ppl that come and go, complain while going bandwagon-ity. I’m not pulling any goofy consolation pity here…honestly, the opposite. I knew the hacker-crypto was spawn from puerile angry-nerdness, was under false impression most of the boys had grown up, or learned to hide their shitty disposition. Trying to keep my anger in check…ooo, alright, FUCK EM.
    You have honor. They’re bad peoples.

  6. karwalski #
    December 29, 2012

    Well said

    “We need more Asher Wolf’s in the World” ~ Thomas Drake at 29c3

    • January 2, 2013

      For the record, I heard someone name-check you at a talk at 29c3 saying you were ‘doing great work’. I think this means you got two mentions in talks at 29c3. I remembered this because I thought the name ‘Asher Wolf’ sounded cool.

  7. December 29, 2012

    Thanks for posting this. I’ve been avoiding the crypto scene for months precisely because of this behavior, and it’s one of the reasons why I don’t work in this space anymore. I didn’t know of all of the harassment you’ve faced recently; I’m sorry you had to go through all of this. Unfortunately I don’t know how to change the behavior of today’s developers; I only hope we can encourage better behavior in the upcoming generations. And while I am all for open, public discussion of crypto in theory, in practice these discussions tend to degenerate into horrible situations of harassment based on gender, sex, or knowledge. Perhaps, then, what is need is a tactical move of closed, safe sub-communities, at least until the rest of the community has matured enough to have discussions without harassment.

    • January 2, 2013

      I’m afraid the idea of ‘closed, safe communities’ is the very problem here, given certain parties decided to fuck off and do their own thing instead of mixing with the great unwashed. They weren’t really representative of anything. What’s also worrying is they seemed to have lacked the capacity to have a co-operative relationship with Asher Wolf (who founded the movement), even for just the c16 weeks of its existence.

      This wasn’t representative of the crypto scene. Most of us (and the majority of CryptoParty organisers) are too mature and self-critical to engage in the same behaviour. Unfortunately it takes only a few people to really alienate others from the whole thing.

      • Max #
        January 7, 2013

        Michael:

        If you think the majority of your scene is too mature and self-critical to engage in this sort of behavior, do you also think the majority of your scene is mature and critical enough to put a stop to others who exhibit that sort of behavior?

        If that’s the case, why is sexism still so prevalent? Why did it get to a level where Asher decided she couldn’t take it anymore?

        If bystanders won’t at least say, “Whoa man, that’s messed up,” it doesn’t matter how many bad apples there are, you’ll still have a hostile environment. Bystanders are responsible for being decent people too.

  8. eldon #
    December 29, 2012

    thanks for writing all this up – and sorry to hear that all this has come down on your head. many men tell me that sexism no longer exists. ahh, walk a mile in my shoes, i want to tell them. why, women are now allowed to wear whatever they want for example, low-cut dresses, short-cut shorts. great! strut your stuff baby. etc. that’s liberation for you.
    even when ppl cannot see what you are wearing tho, the treatment one gets online is always undermining in some way – as soon as the guys find out you are female… mostly, it’s just ignorance. and i mean, one’s opinions are merely ignored, if not the other meaning of misunderstood.

    i attended 2 sydney crypto-parties. there were other women there, they kept quiet – except at the second one i attended (the third one) one of the women presented. it was good, it was for the newbies, but it was content-full. the guys there running the show were knowledgeable and spoke well. one of them seems to be someone sympatico… in every respect, not an ego-burdened person at all. my advice (in life) is to seek out such ppl..

    and, i joined the pirate party au as a mark of solidarity, but sorry to say, party politics there seems like another version of a boys’ club again. OK, i will pay my dues, but i cannot participate – since i am not a hacker myself. and i hope that is really the only prejudicial thing – if women spent most of their time poring over manuals and trying to write code, i hope they’d be able to gain some sort of respect. but it’s a long road. not just for individuals, but for the community in general.
    i hope you regain the strength to keep walking it.
    best wishes.

  9. @lovexanon #
    December 29, 2012

    (twitter @LovexAnn) As a fellow female, we both know how hard it is, in Every aspect. Either its we’re expected to play June Cleaver bc we have tits, to giving into our mens expectations bc we don’t wanna hurt der wittle feewings. But to you, an accomplished woman who got the oppertunity to learn comp language? I say Buck up & Buck out! Yes it’ll be hard, but legends are MADE, not simply born. You’re right on the edge, my darlin! I say #opCreepCard, female geek-speakers unite & show these sexist fucktards that this isn’t the past where maybe it was true that women didn’t get involved w comps, but that this is the here & now where we can be better than they! Polish up your balls ladies, we have a date w destiny!

    • Lola-at-Large #
      March 29, 2013

      THIS. Yes. Fighting back is so much better than giving up.

  10. Bobo_PK #
    December 29, 2012

    I don’t know if that might help to change your feelings but the creepercards in the first instance were used to build a penis. Then someone added the female body. Childish, inapropriate but both genders could/should be pissed. I shot this picture at night 0. http://i.imagebanana.com/img/eu2mnkew/DSC00099.JPG

    • January 2, 2013

      That could be a rocket. Just sayin’

    • January 2, 2013

      To be honest, if we accept that that is a phallus, it still sends the same message. Creeper cards were created to oppose sexual harassment, so any image of a sexual nature that’s made out of them is an attempt to undermine their use.

        • January 4, 2013

          So it’s officially not a rocket? Damn.

        • January 4, 2013

          Well, I’m afraid I don’t think it makes a difference if the artist is a woman (as this link claims). If you’re someone who’s had bad experiences at a con, and is told “oh! We’ve got these new cards to help deal with that” and then see the cards turned into a sexual image, you’re essentially being told that the con doesn’t care about the issues you’ve experienced.

          • klabant #
            January 5, 2013

            The cards might have started a more or less useful discussion.
            If anyone treats you bad, he/she would not stop by getting one of the cards. Some of the 29C3 visitors started to collect them and said you ll receive popcorn for x cards. This shows its value. But there were also discussions concderning the background of those cards and people did start to think over, started to recognize that there might be sexism, harassement and so on. The question now is, how to deal with it, how to prevent and to act and react on sb/sth at eye level.
            Hope we ll find solutions.

          • diggle #
            March 29, 2013

            Not necessarily. One might simply be protesting that the solution is no solution at all.

  11. NubsPeace #
    December 29, 2012

    I wasn’t aware of all this happening…but i am aware you are a much welcome and needed member of any/all social movements or the like. <3 :)

  12. December 29, 2012

    Dear Asher,

    I’m sorry to hear that this happens at crypto parties, too. I normally don’t go to conferences for my own reasons (I wont talk about those), so I only know how feministic positions are attacked online. And that can be quite heavyhanded.

    And yes, let’s call it feminism. There are many people who don’t want to hear that word. They think “gender” or “post-gender” sounds better. But the reality is, that women are the ones who face problems at the places where people want “post-gender”. And in a world where women earn much less money when doing the same work as men, feminism and not gender-foo is still the main fight.

    I did not find out yet, why that strikes back more and more. Maybe I just see it more and more. I don’t know. But I have the feeling that attacking feministic positions became more and more mainstream over the last few years. Just as “politically correct” came under attack. And people stand with strong emotions behind their attacks – emotions I can’t fully understand, but which make it very hard for me to deal with them.

    Maybe the feministic consensus in political communication (“naturally women must have the same rights”) made feministic groups dissolve, because people thought the goal had been reached, when public media had stopped being openly discriminating. Or had just failed at finding new people, because the problems were now addressed by official policy, so no one had to become active personally anymore.

    For some reason the same old kinds of assholes who don’t want to care about feelings of others managed to get into representative positions again. And that costs us momentum we need to fight against rich bastards who want to oppress all people…

    So thank you for speaking up!

    I don’t know how much that will change right away, but it is a push to stronger awareness. And it shocked me into not only redenting the link, but actually blogging about it.

    That’s still not public speaking, since as I said I don’t go to hacker meetings, but it is more than I did the last two times I read about harassment of women at hacker meetings. So at least on me, you had an effect. And maybe I can help a little, that more others realize the problem, too. Maybe some who do go to conferences and can make a difference there.

    Best wishes,
    Arne

  13. anon #
    December 29, 2012

    Hi,

    I am beginning to have vision problems. I wanted to read your site, but the enormous contrast, and what appears to be gradients is playing havoc with my eyesight.

    I would say that in what I read of your post (up to the cryptocat portion) you have not connected your experiences to “the hacker community”, and I take offense at your doing so, without providing any evidence this was a problem of the wider hacker community, and not a problem of the people you associate with.

    You also state many claims that I wonder about. Do you have metrics to show the problem is getting worse? If not, on what basis do you make that claim?

    Thank you, and please consider creating a design for your blog that is more welcoming to people with failing eyes.

    • cyradis #
      December 30, 2012

      Well, why don’t you copy-paste the text into a word processing doc and read all before you start criticizing the content?

  14. December 29, 2012

    To call this a good post would not do justice; not only was it gut wrenching and angering, but it made me think deeply about the way I perceive interactions. The example you gave of the defcon creeper cards was astounding, seeing that construction, I fear I would have laughed it off or merely attributed it to bad taste, I hope in the future I have the bravery to rip such displays of shittiness down.

    Thanks for telling your story, the more we boys hear, the more we may bridge the gender gap.

  15. lotus #
    December 29, 2012

    After reading all that, you know what it says to me?

    It says that you created something that outgrew your ability to micromanage every facet of it (welcome to the real world, where herding cats is as good as it gets), got incredibly, outwardly frustrated at that and took it personally when people tried to tell you to chill out before you burn out, and then, after seeing someone quite rightly and publicly showing up those creeper card things to be the ridiculous and insulting misandrist bullshit that they are, you just decided to officially pull the old misogyny card and rage quite cryptoparty in a blaze of glory whilst doing as much damage to the movements’ reputation as you possibly can with this blogpost, attempting to destroy your OWN CREATION on the way out. For what? Spite? They guy who said that more level heads are needed was right. You did such an incredible thing and then pulled this……..tantrum, because you dont get to be the queen of it all any more, or at least not recognised as such?

    Feminism has so, so much to answer for. It has looped right the fuck around and now holds women back, unfortunately. You want people to see you as a strong independent and resourceful woman, when you should be aiming for people to see you as a strong independent and resourceful person. Fuck, they might indeed do that if youd just let them, without pulling the I HAVE A VAGINA AND A KID GIVE ME SLACK card.

    The kicker to this post that might just blow your mind given the fragile state you appear to be in right now? Believe it or not, whatever, but im female. Youve just gone ahead and assumed this is written by a guy up until now, amirite? But more than that, im a person. I identify as a person, a human being first, and a female after that. What respect i receive (and i do) from the people in my life, male or female, i earned by being an overall worthwhile person, not received by default just because i have a vagina. And the ones that dont respect me for the person i am, i pay far, far less mind to them than you do to those you feel dont respect you. Especially the few that have something against me just for being female, when i happen across those people they barely register in my concious mind. Because the mind is good at filtering out unimportant things.

    Im not a feminist, im a humanist and an egalitarian. If you try it some time you might be surprised at how people respond to you. Right now id bet many men are awkward as fuck around you because maybe theyre thinking “shit what if she one of those women that hand out those red fucking cards…….”

    • swearyanthony #
      December 29, 2012

      Did you actually read the same post I did? Is there some sort of parallel earth blog post you saw that I didn’t?

    • someone #
      December 30, 2012

      Thank you!

      Your point of gaining respect as person is so much spot on. It is easily dismissed as a too simplistic point of view, but it is key of everything.

      Also I noticed that women often tend to treat criticism as based on their sex. Like it or not folks, but this tells more about you than the other person. So unless the other person explicitly mentions it, don’t assume it. I as a man also often get harsh feedback, but I would never allow it to touch me and also wouldn’t link it to my sex (no matter what the sex of the opposing person is). Call it ignorant, but it is a healthy point of view.

      • StarryNight #
        January 1, 2013

        The part where Asher logged into IRC under different nickname and saw the other organisers trying to discredit her because of her motherhood was blatant misogyny and on its own would have justified a rage-quit. Don’t say that gender had nothing to do with the criticism that Asher faced because as soon as her motherhood was mentioned, it did.

        What’s the point of having cryptographic software and anonymous routing if only a few (who have the arrogance to consider themselves elite) know how to use it? Harassing 50% of the world’s population into withdrawing their support for your software is frankly insane behaviour and jeopardises the long-term survival of said project by alienating 50% of potential developers and users.

    • Bruce McGlory #
      December 30, 2012

      Not a single word of this is accurate, logical or true. total fail.

    • StarryNight #
      January 2, 2013

      Summary: being a carer is not a uniquely female responsibility; FLOSS project leaders could do a lot to save developer time and hence encourage talented but time-poor developers; detailed discussion of Dreamwidth success with hosted build environments.

      “the I HAVE A VAGINA AND A KID GIVE ME SLACK card”

      Let me fix your utterly misogynistic comment for you: “the I HAVE A KID GIVE ME SLACK card”. In case my point still isn’t clear, being the sole carer for a child, disabled sibling, or (in my brother-in-law’s case) dying elderly parent is a role that is not by any means unique to people who own vulvas. There are plenty of other reasons why someone might be smart, capable, but time-poor: when I was working at a minimum wage convenience store job, all my waking time was spent working or looking for a better job. I was as smart then as I am now, but in that whole 18 month period I submitted one patch and no bug reports because I had no time to spare to set up build environments, read, learn to program better, etc.

      A huge problem with the FLOSS community at large, and developers in particular, is the assumption that everyone involved in FLOSS has oceans of free time (i.e. time not required to work, pursue formal study, or service the needs of someone else) to spend on FLOSS work. This assumption is totally invalid and locks potential contributors out of working on projects. This locking-out happens disproportionately more to women than men, but still happens to men, so it’s a problem that really needs to be fixed. Asher mentioned spending 48 hours without sleep when attempting to install an app on a phone: that is a length of time that many people without a toddler in tow cannot commit to.

      There are always things that have to take up time—writing code, writing tests, submitting bug reports and patches—but other things like setting up build environments and configuring services can be made much faster or even eliminated. Real case of where service configuration could be improved: my boyfriend complained to me today about how Dovecot comes with absurd defaults that make the setup procedure about three times longer than it would if the defaults were sensible and breaks Dovecot when it’s upgraded to the next version. Real case of project leaders doing something right: Dreamwidth provide a hosted build environment so that developers don’t have to spend hours setting up the right PHP version etc, but can just get on with coding. Also, DW can be sure that developers using the hosted build environment aren’t installing the wrong PHP version or enabling insecure features (e.g. register_globals) that they then rely on in their code. DW, incidentally, have considerably more female devs than most FLOSS projects do.Setting up a hosted development environment (or at the very least creating a memory stick image that allows developers to boot into a correctly-configured development environment) is just one measure that will save developers time, allowing them to spend more time coding and testing and less time configuring and installing. (PS: Before anyone says “if you can’t set up the dev environment, you aren’t competent to code”: that’s bullshit. First, your competence at reading and editing config files does not reflect your ability to write program code, design data architectures, write tests, or any other programming skill, hence why “systems administrator” and “software developer” are two different skill sets. Second, unless you are building your own PC, creating your own CPU dies, soldering your own motherboard together, and writing your own entire operating system, then you are relying upon the work of others to enable you to do your own work. Using a hosted development environment is no different from using a pre-built PC or packaged distro.)

    • StarryNight #
      January 2, 2013

      Summary: being a carer is not a uniquely female responsibility; FLOSS project leaders could do a lot to save developer time and hence encourage talented but time-poor developers; detailed discussion of Dreamwidth success with hosted build environments.

      “the I HAVE A VAGINA AND A KID GIVE ME SLACK card”

      Let me fix your utterly misogynistic comment for you: “the I HAVE A KID GIVE ME SLACK card”. In case my point still isn’t clear, being the sole carer for a child, disabled sibling, or (in my brother-in-law’s case) dying elderly parent is a role that is not by any means unique to people who own vulvas. There are plenty of other reasons why someone might be smart, capable, but time-poor: when I was working at a minimum wage convenience store job, all my waking time was spent working or looking for a better job. I was as smart then as I am now, but in that whole 18 month period I submitted one patch and no bug reports because I had no time to spare to set up build environments, read, learn to program better, etc.

      A huge problem with the FLOSS community at large, and developers in particular, is the assumption that everyone involved in FLOSS has oceans of free time (i.e. time not required to work, pursue formal study, or service the needs of someone else) to spend on FLOSS work. This assumption is totally invalid and locks potential contributors out of working on projects. This locking-out happens disproportionately more to women than men, but still happens to men, so it’s a problem that really needs to be fixed. Asher mentioned spending 48 hours without sleep when attempting to install an app on a phone: that is a length of time that many people without a toddler in tow cannot commit to.

      There are always things that have to take up time—writing code, writing tests, submitting bug reports and patches—but other things like setting up build environments and configuring services can be made much faster or even eliminated.
      * Real case of where service configuration could be improved: my boyfriend complained to me today about how Dovecot comes with absurd defaults that make the setup procedure about three times longer than it would if the defaults were sensible and breaks Dovecot when it’s upgraded to the next version.
      * Real case of project leaders doing something right: Dreamwidth provide a hosted build environment so that developers don’t have to spend hours setting up the right PHP version etc, but can just get on with coding. Also, DW can be sure that developers using the hosted build environment aren’t installing the wrong PHP version or enabling insecure features (e.g. register_globals) that they then rely on in their code. DW, incidentally, have considerably more female devs than most FLOSS projects do.

      Setting up a hosted development environment (or at the very least creating a memory stick image that allows developers to boot into a correctly-configured development environment) is just one measure that will save developers time, allowing them to spend more time coding and testing and less time configuring and installing. (PS: Before anyone says “if you can’t set up the dev environment, you aren’t competent to code”: that’s bullshit. First, your competence at reading and editing config files does not reflect your ability to write program code, design data architectures, write tests, or any other programming skill, hence why “systems administrator” and “software developer” are two different skill sets. Second, unless you are building your own PC, creating your own CPU dies, soldering your own motherboard together, and writing your own entire operating system, then you are relying upon the work of others to enable you to do your own work. Using a hosted development environment is no different from using a pre-built PC or packaged distro.)

  16. December 29, 2012

    The creeper cards, the “mommy-type” talk – that sounds so awful! I really feel ashamed for the hacker community, I do. I hope that you will not give up on us and eventually come back to get involved to some degree (however much you want). While I try to think about ways women might feel awkward and unwelcome in my community and prevent that, I’m afraid the real way out of this is getting to the critical mass of woman participation; my hope is that if we are learning about the issues more and more often, it might mean that hackers aren’t growing more mysoginic but that more women are participating and hopefully the tide will turn, sooner or later. I just pray none of the stories takes any really tragic turn.

    I think you would get your point across much better if you separated the sexism and other inter-personal issues in the cryptoparty community, though. I understand that you are hurt, and I have had my share of issues, disagreements, disappointments in communities like this, so maybe at least a little I know how angry and disappointed you must feel. Maybe gender issues are part of the trouble, but it does not come across like that in your writeup. So the feedback of many of my friends on this article is rather negative, because in regards to most of the issues described, they seem as something that could happen to any (or most) men as well.

    • Bruce McGlory #
      December 30, 2012

      Bullshit.

      • Blake #
        January 7, 2013

        Totally unconstructive. If you won’t help, shut up.

  17. December 29, 2012

    I like the recommendation for each hacker conference to begin with a call for gender equality & diversity, much like the tradition of a ‘welcome to country’ in Aus – also having a recognised leader in the community push forward recommendations to help balance the developer community is a great one. Highlight the action points in your post, the rant is great, but the recommendations are the gems. Many thanks. Also for other great recommendations and practical steps see: http://www.ncwit.org/

    • diggle #
      March 29, 2013

      I don’t like it. It’s the TSA-like behavior of punishing the masses for the actions of the few. The same reason why I don’t participate when the HR at my Fortune 500 company tries to force me to sit through hours of diversity training and anti-sexual harassment material. It treats all men as potential rapists or racists or sexists. You know what? We aren’t. When you push for punishing the innocent, you have to expect to get some blow back.

  18. david #
    December 29, 2012

    Dear Asher,
    I am a man, and a hacker, and though I was not at this particular party, I am deeply embarrassed and ashamed that you had to deal with it. Men suck. Not all men, I know. And even some of us who have sucked really hard in the past (maybe I’ll see you some time in the future and tell you about that, but I will have to work up some real bravery) but are working our asses off to change still suck sometimes.

    I’m sorry. I apologize for any part I may have had by not speaking out before. I apologize for not speaking out in public about how truly evil this is. Makes me ashamed to be a man, and ashamed to be a hacker. I promise, I will speak up.

    Thanks.

  19. Tom #
    December 29, 2012

    ” I didn’t create Cryptoparty just so a bunch of privileged white boys could..”

    Why bring race into this?

    People of any race can be arse holes, why discriminate against one?

    • jupiter_fyre #
      December 30, 2012

      She’s not being racist it isnt tha it is the demographics is all,come on now you know better !!!

      I.L.L.
      FYRE

    • Bruce McGlory #
      December 30, 2012

      Stop being a ridiculous whiny fool. Straight White Dudes are at the top of Privilege Mountain and the more you ridiculous whiny fools keep pretending not to understand that, the less respect you get.

      • January 2, 2013

        No, I’m afraid the poster is right. When I was mugged the police asked me ‘were they black?’ They weren’t, but that wasn’t the point. When I asked “what would their race have to do with it?” I was told “We’re not being racist, that’s the statistics.” The same argument does not hold more water if the ‘target’ audience is white, it’s not about demographics or statistics. You *can* make some case that gender is relevant, but I think even that is dangerous.

        When someone does something we must not extend that action to the entire group. (NOTE: I’ve been guilty of this myself in the past when angry). If al-quada bombs something, that’s not ‘muslims’. If a woman shoplifts, that’s not ‘women’. If a man sexually harasses a woman, that’s not ‘men’ and his race or religious affilliations are really not relevant. If a rich person commits a murder, or a poor person, that’s not ‘rich people’ or ‘poor people’.

        This next bit is going to be hard to explain, so forgive me for being a bit ’round the houses’ in what I say. I’m not accusing either you or Asher of being ‘racist’. I believe that to say someone is ‘racist’ is a misunderstanding of racial prejudice, as it implies that this is something some people do and others don’t. Racism is more of a trap or fallacy that we all slip into from time to time, I do, you do, everyone does. I feel that you are slipping into it here.

        I feel the concept of privilige is being widely misused as a cover for arguments that are really about race and gender, but people don’t realize that. Imagine a community of Muslims and Hindus (or Taoists and Bhuddists, or whatever) living together, where the Hindus enjoy a greater degree of social mobility and status than the Muslims. If a Hindu commits a murder, does the fact that s/he comes from a privilidged group have any relevance? S/he didn’t commit the murder as a Hindu, but as an individual. Furthermore, if we say ‘this person has commited murder’, then I would expect the community across boundaries, to agree that the person should be found and brought to justice for it. However, if we say ‘this Hindu has commited murder, that’s Hindus for you’ then we’ll get a very different reaction from the community.

        Given that the hacker community is largely male, it is simply bad politics to claim that ‘all hackers/males are the same’ (and it’s patently untrue). We should focus on the actions of individuals, otherwise the whole community will go into defensive mode, and nothing will be achieved.

        At the end of the day it’s not about blame. It’s about figuring out how we can improve the environment for everyone.

        • Donkey #
          January 4, 2013

          She didn’t make that so only white men seem to have the right to come (because if everybody else is in danger or treated like shit, you might as well say they don’t have the right to come!)
          Reformulate the sentence this way and magically understand.
          Imagine yourself answering this bullshit to someone saying: “Democracy wasn’t made so only white rich men could vote.”

        • Kiwano #
          January 10, 2013

          I think you’re missing a giant point about privilege/oppression vs. responsibility/culpability.

          In the example you give of a murder, the murderer is indeed cuplable as an individual, and shouldn’t be held up as some example of how one or another group that they belong to is somehow predisposed to murder.

          What happens in a system of structural inequality is that, thanks to already existing biases about groups, when someone in the privileged group goes and murders someone, there’s a much higher chance that some claim about the oppressed group being more violent, more criminal, or somesuch, will cause the blame to get pinned on some member of the oppressed group.

          Now I’m no big fan of using the term “privilege” when discussing structural inequality myself. I feel that it abnormalizes the better-treated position, normalizes the oppressed position, and sets the stage for an erosion of rights. That said, I’ve heard a lot more people acknowledge structural inequality in recent years, so maybe it’s doing some good after all.

  20. December 29, 2012

    @anon: requiring metrics and complaining about unrelated stuff¹ is part of the problem. You get a story of personal experience and you want metrics? If you can’t accept personal experience, go and get the metrics yourself.

    ¹: If you can’t read the blog, then just copy the text into a text editor. Or open the page in w3m or lynx. Yes, it renders correctly in w3m. And in lynx. Without any problems.

    • anon #
      December 29, 2012

      Someone says:

      “Hacker Community, we need to talk .. the problem has gotten worse.”

      There ain’t no problem until you can demonstrate there is a problem. The problem has gotten worse is a scientific measurable claim.

      Don’t optimize until you measure where your slowdowns are.

      She is trying to capitalize off of all of these Hackers are mean to women posts. She should be able to show that there is a problem, and if she can’t just tell us what the issue is, no need to make bogus unprovable claims.

      • January 2, 2013

        Anon, posts by you and all the other ‘anons’ show that there’s a problem. I don’t believe it’s a problem with the entire hacker community, but there’s something going on.

    • anon #
      December 29, 2012

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ableism

      Ableism (pron.: /ˈeɪbəlɪzəm/[1]) is a form of discrimination or social prejudice against people with disabilities. It is known by many names, including disability discrimination, physicalism, handicapism, and disability oppression.[2] It is also sometimes known as disablism, although there is some dispute as to whether ableism and disablism are synonymous, and some people within disability rights circles find the latter term’s use inaccurate.[citation needed] Discrimination faced by those who have or are perceived to have a mental disorder is sometimes called mentalism rather than ableism.[citation needed]

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_accessibility

      Web accessibility refers to the inclusive practice of making websites usable by people of all abilities and disabilities. When sites are correctly designed, developed and edited, all users can have equal access to information and functionality. For example, when a site is coded with semantically meaningful HTML, with textual equivalents provided for images and with links named meaningfully, this helps blind users using text-to-speech software and/or text-to-Braille hardware. When text and images are large and/or enlargeable, it is easier for users with poor sight to read and understand the content.

      Since Asher Wolf is discussing sexism, let’s discuss it all, including the ableist design of this website.

      • February 6, 2013

        @anon Have to disagree with you on accessibility. It works fine with my screen reader, which works for anyone with vision loss or impaired vision. Also, my zoom function works just fine in Firefox. Nice try on ableism, but as someone with multiple disabilities, I find your pathetic attempt to make a counterargument offensive. And, even if it were true, it’s a false analogy. Comparing website design (which if you read the post, you would know was not done by Asher) to conversation and actions compares two distinctly different act-experience dynamics.

  21. john #
    December 29, 2012

    how comes i wouldn’t feel offended by a girl making jokes about men, posting nude male pics, reducing men to their d*cks? how comes my gf doesn’t feel offended about what you describe as harassment of women? maybe as it tells more about how you see your own sexuality. in the end human life is about sex, it only exists because of sex. it’s time to accept this, no matter what peer group you may belong to.

    i wonder whether you have the guts to post my comment.

    • Andy #
      December 29, 2012

      You don’t feel offended by male objectification because you have the privileged position of being male. You are not subjected to objectification regularly, you are not held back by your gender, you are not constantly on the receiving end of douchebags trying to pick you up.

      Please engage some empathy and try to understand things from the other side before railing about how you don’t get it.

    • Bruce McGlory #
      December 30, 2012

      Are you 12? How come you wouldn’t feel offended? Because you’re not solely and entirely judged and valued by your looks. Women are. Why doesn’t your “gf” get offended? Probably because she’s a tube sock and not a human being. On the off chance that she actually does exist, she’s lying to you because you’re a ignorant ass and she knows better than to try to talk to you like an adult.

      There are no guts in your comment, just an ignorant, barely literate mishmash of bullshit that makes it embarrassing to share your gender. Shut up and stop embarrassing men.

      • January 2, 2013

        Bruce, I’ve disagreed with some of the stuff you’ve said above, but on your last line here I’m with you 100%

    • Tads #
      January 2, 2013

      How would you feel if you worked with a group of homosexuals who leered at you, constantly tried to talk you into having sex with them, made comments about your body/clothes and suggested you were repressed and boring for not bending over for them? Have you ever been asked to suck a dick to get special consideration for a late assignment or similar?

      If not you really have no idea what you’re talking about. If you’d be ok with constant homosexual harassment because “that’s sexuality” you’d have a consistent world view. I very much doubt you would be.

    • January 2, 2013

      I *AM* offended by depictions of men that reduce them to sexual organs (I’ve actually seen drawings of men as walking, talking phalluses on a supposedly feminist (obviously doing it wrong) website and couldn’t believe what I was seeing. I am similarly offended by depictions of women as sexual organs, particularly when made from cards intended to prevent sexual harassment, that’s really out of order.

      Your girlfriend isn’t offended by certain actions BECAUSE SHE’S YOUR SEXUAL PARTNER. She has granted you permission to behave towards her in a certain way, as you have granted similar permission to her. If someone hasn’t entered this relationship with you, then certain behaviors to them are inappropriate and count as harassment.

      I really shouldn’t have to explain this!

      • Mackenzie #
        January 9, 2013

        Colun:

        Yeesh, not to mention that such depictions are *extremely* offensive to transgender women.

  22. @johnnycannuk #
    December 29, 2012

    $700 is a lot of money. Name and shame. Taking your money without producing results is fraud and theft. I’ll be happy to help get it back.

  23. rosettenbert #
    December 29, 2012

    > Information activist, disruptive journalist, citizen technologist, blogger, and internaut

    oh god

  24. Kim #
    December 29, 2012

    You shouldn’t need a red card wagged in your face to let you know your behavior is shitful.

    The world would certainly be a better place if people knew when they behaved shitfully. But in reality they usually don’t.

    When it comes to sexism there will always be that handful of assholes that tries to hurt people on purpose. In my experience, most men don’t sense sexist behaviour because they just don’t have the required mindset.

    Although it only makes little difference for the women affected whether sexist actions are indeed carried out intentionally, I think it makes a lot of difference when trying to improve the situation. Most men would probably be willing to alter their own behaviour if they were able to empathize.

    A friend of mine compared the gender / feminism debate to discussions about the Middle East. And I think there is some truth about it. Many people have been hurt and it sometimes seems impossible to conduct an objective debate about gender discrimination. And terms like “rape culture” – although fitting in some way – are not helping at all.

    I think the creeper cards at 29c3 are an interesting idea to raise conscience about discrimination. But they won’t change a thing if we don’t try to make the “offenders” understand what part of their behaviour made it sexist. Because most men don’t behave in a sexist way on purpose. Publicly shoving a red card into a persons face is a pretty harsh form of communication. So if you can, don’t use a card. Talk to the offending person. Or, if you feel you can’t, ask someone else to do it for you.

    I know it’s hard so stay cool-headed sometimes. Especially if you have experienced abuse. But there are a lot of nice people that will help if they are asked to.

    Thanks for speaking up and stay strong!

    • December 29, 2012

      Most men would probably be willing to alter their own behaviour if they were able to empathize.

      And it’s our job to make men empathize. Great, thanks for the heads up.

      *eyeroll*

      You really think the tactics you’re describing haven’t been tried already? Do you honestly think the Creeper Cards are something that happens as the first line of response to a problem that could be solved just by talking?

      I think the creeper cards at 29c3 are an interesting idea to raise conscience about discrimination. But they won’t change a thing if we don’t try to make the “offenders” understand what part of their behaviour made it sexist.

      Please, by all means: give us the lowdown on a time-tested approach of explaining to people exhibiting sexist behavior that actually leads them to empathize with the victims and change their ways. The world would be indebted to you.

      (And by the way, 29c3 wasn’t the first place Creeper Cards emerged. Do a google search.)

      Publicly shoving a red card into a persons face is a pretty harsh form of communication.

      Yes. That is, in fact, the point.

      I know it’s hard so stay cool-headed sometimes. Especially if you have experienced abuse. But there are a lot of nice people that will help if they are asked to.

      Do yourself a favor and get better educated on the very well blogged about situations at various tech and skeptic conferences that have led to the creation of the Creeper Cards.

      Then come back and explain to us all again how so many “nice people” would come to the aid of a culturally disadvantaged individual whose stereotyped qualities include “overreacting” and “being too sensitive”, just to name a few.

      I think you are the one who needs help with empathy.

      • anon #
        December 29, 2012

        “Publicly shoving a red card into a persons face is a pretty harsh form of communication.

        Yes. That is, in fact, the point.”

        Um, so once you’ve taken this passive aggressive tact of shoving a red card into a person’s face, I guess you shouldn’t be surprised if they take this blow and try to return the favor. In this case in the form of drawing objectified sexualized bodies with the cards.

        Boo hoo.

        You act like assholes, and people treat you like assholes in return. Why do you get a pussy pass to act like a cunt and shove cards into a male face and then expect not to have those cards subverted and used against you?

        If you want respect, you may wish to offer respect.

        • Sally Strange #
          December 29, 2012

          Just wanted to point out that shoving a red card in someone’s face is not passive aggressive, it’s just regular aggressive.

          • Asher Wolf #
            December 29, 2012

            Agreed. Hence I’ve never done it, nor have I any desire to do it.

          • Trouble #
            December 31, 2012

            An assertive response is not aggressive if it’s in response to (sexist) aggression. It’s just a response. Perhaps even defensive. Presuming a red card is in response to an act of aggression?

        • Naomi #
          December 29, 2012

          “I guess you shouldn’t be surprised if they take this blow and try to return the favor.”

          No, I am not surprised. I’m not surprised that an act of aggression (attempt to shame) would inspire defensiveness and retaliation.

          I am also not a user of creeper cards.

          My point in talking about them is that it is necessary to see them as an outgrowth of a sense of desperation. NOT that they are the solution.

          But thanks for the accusatory tone and ridiculously misogynistic language. Super helpful to the discussion.

          • boo #
            December 30, 2012

            Grow up. This guy has a point ( i would have used different language) These cards are stupid which is why no one admits to using them. Sexual harassment happens everywhere and there are simpler and more effective methods to address it than playing citizen cop asshole.

            It seems that many of these insults were about personal character. That is not misogyny. It is sexist and repressive to suggest every argument involving a woman must touch on misogyny. To bandy about the word devalues it so much that we risk a boy-crying-wolf scenario. Just do good work and let that stand in front of everything else. I’m a woman btw.

          • Asher Wolf #
            December 30, 2012

            Read. The. First. Paragraph.

          • chrisp #
            December 31, 2012

            I started out thinking the creeper cards were a horrible solution to the problem, but I’m beginning to see they may have a use. If you want the conferences opening address to talk about the need to be excellent to each other then the cards can be a good hook to start that discussion “we have these cards… but we know we’re not going to need them because you’re all far to good people to do anything that would need them right?”

            For most (not all, but most) people a gentle reminder to think before they speak, accompanied by a censure method, would probably make enough of a difference that the cards themselves would never be needed.

        • January 2, 2013

          anon, I have recently sworn to give up hate (we all do it, realizing that and examining yourself for it is the first step) but people like you really make that resolution difficult to keep.

          Using the ‘c’ word and ‘p’ word, and then telling people they should ‘give respect if they want respect’ is… I don’t even have a word for what it is. It doesn’t make me think well of you as a human being.

          Then again, as like so many haters you’re hiding behind ‘anon’, and nothing you say has consequences for your real-world persona, I guess you don’t care about what others think.

          I don’t know if you are male, or a hacker, but you make us look bad with these comments. Maybe that’s your aim. If not, if you really do care about the community you belong to, then please start taking your own advice and giving respect. You might get some in return (though, from my experience of human beings, I can make no promises in this regard).

      • Kim #
        December 30, 2012

        >> Most men would probably be willing to alter their own behaviour if they were able to empathize.
        > And it’s our job to make men empathize. Great, thanks for the heads up.

        Who is we? Women? Men need to be a part of this, too. It’s our job as a community to improve the situation.

        > You really think the tactics you’re describing haven’t been tried already?

        Noone said it would be easy. My point is that aggression will never be a viable solution.

        >> I know it’s hard so stay cool-headed sometimes. Especially if you have experienced abuse.
        >> But there are a lot of nice people that will help if they are asked to.
        > Do yourself a favor and get better educated on the very well blogged about situations at various
        > tech and skeptic conferences that have led to the creation of the Creeper Cards.

        Please don’t make assumptions about people you don’t know. I have faced ridicule and social rejection myself. It can hurt a lot. But I have also learned that reacting aggressively will not lead to acceptance in any way. If people won’t listen to civilized talk, they sure as hell won’t listen to shouting. That is a simple misconception. Sure, aggression can lead to short-term attention. But people shouting at each other will never yield understanding.

        Changing people is a never easy. And it never will be. It’s tiring and frustrating. Deal with it, stay strong, keep your calm. Keep up the fight.

    • January 2, 2013

      I can see what people are saying about red-cards being aggressive, a bit, but if you feel threatened then it’s defensive. Most people who do any kind of martial arts are told “If someone lays their hand on you, hit, hit hard, keep hitting.” (admittedly this advice normally concerns lonely environments where someone being that close is really dangerous, it’s less appropriate at, say, a party where there are other people around).

      Compared to that a red card is pretty mild. The card-system seems to be getting a lot of disapproval on both sides of the debate, but I think it’s not such a bad idea. For one thing it’s a means of shocking someone who might drunk or not thinking straight to re-evaluate their actions.

      On the other hand, there’s likely going to be some idiots who will try to make the red-card a badge of status, and compete to get as many as they can. I cannot think of any way of dealing with such people, except excluding them from the con altogether.

      I would hate to get a card, and I realize that misunderstandings do happen. For instance, at 29c3 I went to something that I understood to be a ‘hacker breakfast’ (I don’t speak German). I’d found that by and large hackers don’t talk, and thought this might be a good social event to attend (29c3 needs more social events). On arriving I noticed it was all women, but didn’t particularly think anything of that, I was early, there were only a few people there. I noticed the spelling of ‘hacker’ was odd, and eventually asked “What’s haecksen, actually?” and was told ‘female hackers’. An embarassing situation, I wonder what they thought of me when I walked in the room.

      However, this is one of those ‘damned if you do, damned if you don’t’ situations, and I’d rather get a card if i was acting inappropriately and didn’t realize it (somethings differ across cultures, for instance) than not be told and continue to give offence.

      I think the cards are worth pursuing.

  25. Griffin Boyce #
    December 29, 2012

    While I agree with the overall sentiment that things need to improve in the hacker community, I think you were wrong to talk bad about Nadim, who is not sexist at all. Your behavior that lead to that tweet was inappropriate, and your gender had nothing to do with his response.

    And, while we’re on the subject of misdirected anger, has it occurred to you that some people might just be jerks? Not every asshole is also misogynist. It’s really hard for me to think of someone that ioerror hasn’t been kind of a dick to at some point. Doesn’t mean he’s sexist, just means he’s kind of a dick sometimes.

    There are lots of misogynists in every community. Hacking is no different. We have a lot of work to do to make everyone feel welcome, and to celebrate the contributions of everyone.

    Lady Ada faced a lot of sexism in hardware hacking, but she persevered and set an incredible example for *everyone* to follow.

    Quitting just lets the assholes win. So those are your choices: persevere or let assholes win.

    • Asher Wolf #
      December 29, 2012

      Back up your statement “your behavior that lead to that tweet was inappropriate.”

    • Mackenzie #
      January 9, 2013

      So you say ioerror is a dick to everybody. Why is he allowed to be? Why isn’t he told to clean up his act or stay home? Why isn’t he excluded from invitations to dinner after the talks? Why doesn’t everyone refuse to buy him a beer? Why isn’t he treated the way he treats everyone else (ie, as less-than)?

      The way I see it, if you tolerate his behaviour, you’re enabling.

  26. Mickael #
    December 29, 2012

    I think you were right to put your self preservation as a priority. Having done the same ( for others reasons, on others communities quite unrelated ), this took me a few months before being able to do back something useful, but I had plenty of time to recover. As you still have a work and a son to care of, it may take longer, but just try to focus on you for a while. The cryptoparty idea wasgreat, it somehow managed to get out of control, but just keep in mind that’s how you measure success, some people will repeat without doing it exactly the same way.

    I hope you will get well soon and be able to find sleep again. Without sleep, the rest of your day will likely be fucked up, and so your life quality will decrease, so just focus on that. The rest can be done later.

  27. J #
    December 29, 2012

    Thank you for writing this … addressed a few of many issues

    Good luck to you.
    -another mother

  28. Tamara #
    December 29, 2012

    I am in the electronics industry and old. I was hoping things had changed but not surprised they have not. Sorry you had to go through it. It is not something anyone should experiance. That said I know we do and it makes me sad angry and mad all in the same breath. Take care.

    Tamara

  29. December 29, 2012

    Dearest Asher,

    Wish you had come to me to discuss what was going on. Not that I could change the situation, though could have at least tried and supported you. Unfortunately, I have also experienced several of the things you have gone through ie giving $ towards a project and instead getting scammed (actually more $ than you ). Asshats abound! Sorry you have had such a negative experience from having made the vision of Cryptoparties a reality.

    Your suggestions are excellent, especially regarding the need of conference organizers take a more pro-active role in encouraging participants to have personal integrity and respect towards ALL people attending. It is not much to ask at all. It would be a good place to start. In addition, older more mature hacktivists need to start setting a better example and telling the 13 year old boys to fucking stop with their moronic behavior.

    Whether the hacktivist community or other activist communities, they fail when they leave out and disrespect women. There are not enough good activists in the world, especially those that volunteer their time and money. “We need to be brilliant to each other” is what Stephen Urbach stated in #Telecomix. This is so true. Obviously, sometimes even the good guys slip and forget to remind each other how awesome they are.

    So often people ask how we can better stop surveillance and surveillance vendors. One thing for sure is that we will never be successful if our own community is unable to be respectul and supportive of each other. Even though some projects are not suppose to have a “leader.” we all know that the people who created or keep it alive are often de-facto “leaders.” Anyone that knows anything about the Cryptoparty movement, knows you are the founder that put life into making it a reality. Whoever the guy is that applied to #29c3 before you did cannot do a better job that you would have. Your idea for a panel would have been better.

    Asher Wolf you are loved and respected by many men in the hacktivist community. I have witnessed this. Many times I have felt like quitting the Telecomix Blue Cabinet Wiki Project. Many times I have felt talked down to by some of the mate drinking bunch hehe or that the project is not important enough for them to participate, instead of just lurk. What keeps me going are not only the awesome guys that do support the project in some way, it is also my own believe that the project is vital to educating people about surveillance tech and companies. I do it because I find the data interesting to read and learn about. Burnout happens. No doubt you have experienced more than burnout :(

    You do whatever you feel you need to do. Thank you for all the awesome work you do. Thank you for having given life to Cryptoparty. It often takes a woman to not only give birth to a project, it is often takes a woman to love a project to help to grow <3

  30. Kelly Cunningham #
    December 29, 2012

    Thank you for this and very sorry you had to endure the sexism and harassment. As a human being with a uterus, I applaud your strength, intelligence, and bravery.

  31. Kelly Cunningham #
    December 29, 2012

    Thank you for this and very sorry you had to endure the sexism and harassment. As a human being with a uterus, I applaud your strength, intelligence, and bravery.

  32. CryptoBr0 3 Million #
    December 29, 2012

    I’ve said and heard people say some pretty mean stuff about you. Keep in mind however this is just due to your lack of intelligence, understanding, skill and knowledge.

    We have said bad things about males for the same reason and will continue to do so, please don’t feel persecuted due to your sex. It is who you are as a person we have a problem with, nothing to do with gender.

    • December 29, 2012

      Sounds like you are saying that you are an asshat to everyone? It is this sort of condescending arrogance that is not helpful. Kindness matters. Be brilliant to each other <3 If you know you are rude to people, there is time to change for the better.

      • JimmyJimJim #
        December 31, 2012

        It doesn’t sound that way to me. Not everybody is stupid and lacks skill :P

    • January 2, 2013

      I’m going to ignore the comment about ‘intelligence’ and just say that *I* lack understanding, skills and knowledge of all kinds of things. Cookery, for instance. I’m no good at it, and I wish I was (I would eat better, and I like eating and would like to do more of it at a higher level).

      I hope that, should I go to a cookery class, there will be no-one in there who says mean things about me because of my lack of understanding, skills, and knowledge. It would be totally inappropriate and non-inclusive for them to do that, and it’s the same for the hacker community (though, I’m pretty sure you don’t speak for that community, you’re just another random hater).

  33. inara #
    December 29, 2012

    I have a uterus and kids.

    I’ve been active in a/the hacker community for about 3 years. My background is Engineering, majoring in DSP and telecoms (I think we had a ratio of 6:110 women to men when I did my engineering degree). I ported my knowledge of telecom networks to IT networks to move closer to my family. This led to an interest in security.

    I’ve never had an issue. If you love and are interested in the topics being discussed at hacker confs and meetups, who cares about the gender of the people around you. I think my gender isn’t an issue to me, therefore, its not an issue to the people around me.

  34. Jeg #
    December 29, 2012

    Hi Asher,

    wow… a lot of pouring out here and although I am not one of your followers I saw your efforts when you started cryptoparty… all ‘overnight’… I give you lots of credit for your creation and yes, I learned a bit via the manual.

    It was a huge task that needed lots of planning. Through the Sydney group I found that lots of skills were needed to develop the program, although I never attended a meeting due to hours and locations.

    I saw lots of ‘know it all’ and hardly any support, whether there was any support behind the twits I don’t know, all I know is that the project needed a massive effort from different skills to keep it alive.

    Yes, cryptoparty could survive without you but… it is your baby and something might have come out of it, take a break, then after a good relaxing time off sit and think if you want it back, but now, you know the most important thing to create a project is to “surround yourself with the best”.

    Jacob noticed it, and he is right, it is people’s responsibility to want to learn, we simply cannot force them to do what we want. He is too busy but Jacob must have lots of people that can guide you, just ask if you need or place a post asking for support and the type needed.

    And, you do not need to throw money away to create webpages, a blog could had been sufficient, easy to handle and most of all it is FREE.

    There is a bit of personal on your outpour but I prefer to leave it as that ‘personal’.

    You want a change you can create that change, if someone wants to be part of that change they will join you.

    Pour your energies into your creativity, your time is important, let the others do whatever makes them happy, it has nothing to do with you.

    Best wishes to you, enjoy the short holiday… :)

  35. Whiskey #
    December 29, 2012

    Good for you! I admire your strength and wish you good luck!

  36. batgirl #
    December 29, 2012

    Yep! Just read some tweets from #29c3 https://twitter.com/i0n1c/status/284855936433127425

  37. freakOnature1 #
    December 29, 2012

    I haven’t got a clue about what a crypto party is, but it sounds like something that you get a group of people together and learn about technology. Kinda sounds like haveing a weekend with like minded friends ( much better with alcohol so you can relax!) Any ways I am a guy and I’ve always respected any women that’s in any computer related field. I’ve always viewed a woman in this field as a fricking awsome person because it is an area dominated by men and I would hire a woman over the most qualified man just to get them in the field because we need more women. Women and men see thing differently.
    I’ve read about half of your page and what it sounds like is that the people in this field are just dicks I know that if I was more knowledgable about this area and you wanted to learn and improve yourself I would support you 110%. I would poke and make fun of you along the way, but only because that is what I do and it would have nothing to do with your gender.
    Don’t let a few dicks ruin you view of all us computer geeks/dorks/nerds/gamers/professionals! ( I hope this has a more button cuz it’s long as heck)

    • CryptoBr0 3 Million #
      December 29, 2012

      This is not a helpful idea…

      “I’ve always viewed a woman in this field as a fricking awsome person because it is an area dominated by men and I would hire a woman over the most qualified man just to get them in the field because we need more women. Women and men see thing differently.”

      So you’d rather hire a women who didn’t have the required skills to secure a clients networks, leave them wide open to getting owned, because… we need more women?

      I hope I never have the displeasure of working with you.

      The best person for the job, male or female. Gender discrimination is bad.

      • December 29, 2012

        “So you’d rather hire a women who didn’t have the required skills to secure a clients networks, leave them wide open to getting owned, because… we need more women?”

        He didn’t say that.

        “The best person for the job, male or female. Gender discrimination is bad.”

        You honestly think that there is always an objectively “best person for the job”?

      • someone #
        December 30, 2012

        Amen! Reverse discrimination is just as stupid as the original.

    • Ark-kun #
      December 30, 2012

      >I would poke and make fun of you along the way, but only because that is what I do and it would have nothing to do with your gender.

      You’d still be called sexist. Don’t even try.

  38. djvjgrrl #
    December 29, 2012

    bless you for putting into words the endless litany of petty crap we are expected to take, deal with, and “rise above”.

    i’m here to create people’s media, not to call out others ridiculous behavior, and it pisses me off to no end to have to bring this topic up too, not to mention that i even have to deal with the, as you so eloquently phrase it, “arse-hattery” in the first place. nobody want’s to have “that” conversation. thank you for motivating me start it…again.

    solidarity

  39. #Mudgutz #
    December 29, 2012

    Asher,

    It is with such sorrow that I hear that you are quitting the CryptoParty movement.
    I cannot add to the above comments except to say that I can understand you motives but please don’t do something that you may regret latter on down the track.
    You, to me, will always be the “Mother of the #CryptoParty” forever. I know, not a good term in the middle of a misogyny discussion but hey.
    May I impart some of old Mud’s wisdom’s on you, have a rest, seek some advice from those around you that you look up to, maybe your Grandfather or others.
    Think.
    And think some more.
    Only then will you know what is the right thing to do.
    In the meantime, stick it up to those that piss you off. Get it out of your system.
    Let em see that you don’t mess with an angry ranga.
    A few more well placed “Fuck You’s” too.
    Oh and don’t stop doing what you do well, you and YAN are my only reliable news sources, oh and you too Bernard.

    Mudgutz

  40. LRN #
    December 29, 2012

    > I didn’t create Cryptoparty just so a bunch of privileged white boys could exclusively hang out together, slurping down ClubMate while trying to figure out how to anonymously use BitCoin to buy Aderall off SilkRoad.

    So you are a bitch to people and are surprised when they do their best to be bitches back? ^.~

    > No, women stay the hell away from hacker-spaces, conferences and tech initiatives because of on-going experiences of misogyny, abuse, threats, put downs, belittlement, harassment, rape.

    These experiences, to be honest, do seem to be mostly imaginary. That is just how it is.

    • Bruce McGlory #
      December 30, 2012

      Another cowardly, whiny, lying bigot. Another total embarrassment to the male gender. Go hide under the bed, where the scary reality of your flaccid cowardice can’t get you.

    • Tads #
      January 2, 2013

      Anyone who says girls in hacker-spaces don’t cop at least “misogyny, abuse, threats, put downs, belittlement, harassment” is kidding themselves. I’ve heard it justified with the “we’re assholes to everyone princess, if you can’t cop it leave” line but outright denying it is laughable.

  41. S. #
    December 29, 2012

    Thanks for telling your story. Im only afraid, the bunch of privileged white boys are too bussy talking about theyr 1. world problems, to take a minute and think about what your telling us.

    Good luck to you and best wishes

    • Bruce McGlory #
      December 30, 2012

      Completely accurate for some of them, as they’ve shown in the comments. Notice how none of these cowardly sexists have the spine to come back and defend, support or clarify anything they say.

      This is because they know they’re wrong, know they are on the wrong side of history, and know that they can’t compete on a level playing field. So they run away quickly after dropping a sexist turdbomb. If they were as brave, logical, honest or fair as they love to pretend they are, that wouldn’t be the case.

  42. Andrew Longhurst #
    December 29, 2012

    Asher: Way to “Destroy the Joint”! Good on ya! :)

  43. Jonah Takalua #
    December 29, 2012

    You got your period, miss?

    • Ark-kun #
      December 30, 2012

      Don’t be an asshole, please. You need to provide some thoughtful critique, not bullshit.

    • Bruce McGlory #
      December 30, 2012

      LOL Holy fuck you’re a coward. You read all of that and all you can manage to respond with is juvenile misogyny? You are a chickenshit bigot.

      • Jonah Takalua #
        January 1, 2013

        LOL it’s just a joke, why are you taking it so serious, you got punk’d.

        • January 2, 2013

          No, it’s not a joke, it’s an insult. For the record I’ve seen comments aimed at people like me (white males) that were insults but passed off as jokes, I think there are comments that I could make at you (who/whatever you are) that you’d find horribly insulting, and you wouldn’t be happy with me saying ‘Hey, it’s just a joke!’

          I think you would expect not to be insultingly defined in terms of your race, gender, religion, etc. You should extend that expectation to others.

          • Jonah Takalua #
            January 4, 2013

            It’s a joke but you not only lack a sense of humour but are pretending to be offended for the sake of it.

            You can call me anything you want, I don’t really care. There is not a single thing you could say to my face that would rustle my jimmies.

  44. PinkJellyfish #
    December 29, 2012

    @Asher_Wolf it’s simple: organise some cryptoparties for girls only (or for girls & transgenders).

  45. December 29, 2012

    @Clytie

    I have a uterus, kids and grandkids. I date back to punch-cards.

    Asher is describing the death-of-a-thousand-cuts women experience all through their lives, the patronizing, the belittling, the exclusion, the leering, groping and sleazing. You endure it. You battle for credibility. Sometimes, as in P.M. Gillard’s speech or Asher’s post above, it’s just the last damn straw.

    What she describes is genuine. Don’t doubt that.

    I am one of many women in computing who have received death threats, simply for being a member of a women-in-computing group. Yes, that’s pretty much the crust on the crazy sandwich, but we’re all part of the loaf. Every time we tolerate someone belittling or abusing another, we implicitly support that behaviour. Our acceptance fuels its exacerbation.

    A lack of social skills is no excuse. However socially awkward you might be (and that is an area where so many of us genetically disposed to computing have much to learn), you only patronize, belittle or abuse someone if you _believe_ they are inferior and that you are entitled to harm them. This is not a lack of social skills. It is deliberate ignorance and self-indulgence.

    We can do much better. If we don’t, we risk losing the strength of true community, of the crowd-sourcing an effectively inclusive network can do. We will have been divided and conquered, not even by the governments and corporations who wish to control us, but by our own ignorance, selfishness and apathy.

    Will you allow that to happen?

    • Ark-kun #
      December 30, 2012

      I agree with nearly everything that you’ve said.
      You’ve written about your experience, but I want to ask you a little detail. Have you created some “tech”? What was it? People can use tech, teach it, learn it, write about it, try to do something about it, or they can create it. As far as I understand Asher was “try to do something about tech”. What about you?

      >You endure it.
      WHY? Isn’t it the exact thing that lets the sexist behavior (of both men and women)? You must fight back!

      …Well, the rest of the post tells to do exactly that =)

      • Mackenzie #
        January 9, 2013

        Ark-kun:
        The reason you endure it is that there are only 2 options:
        1. Endure
        2. Leave

        That’s it. You say “you must fight back,” but fighting back requires that you endure to start with! Sticking around long enough to tell someone “you know, you’re being a real jerk, and you need to cut it the hell out” is enduring.

  46. December 29, 2012

    Hi Asher,
    I clicked this URL pasted in Freenode #bitcoin-otc but I’m not a conference-goer of any kind (unless you count the 2003 Siebel week in San Diego, where I worked as a trade show temp badge checker), and barely skilled at crypto.

    You’d mentioned USAID, OpenISP, European Commission, Google and Mozilla. Am I reading too much into things, or are too many already joining the stormtroopers? I might call them greenhat jackboots (those who go wherever the money is, even if it is tyrants’), at least in the U.S., your main money color may vary.

  47. teorog #
    December 29, 2012

    Every time this happens it’s the same: a woman enters a male-dominated space and shit hits the fan. Men are pigs! Men can’t keep their hands to themselves! Men make crude jokes!

    What bullshit. I’m gay, and because of it, I get to hear women talk about guys the way straight guys never hear. And in general, women are just as objectifying and sexist as the men. They just tend to use the feathery language of women’s magazines to do so.

    Male dominated spaces are meritocracies. People will belittle you and try to hurt their feelings when you try and get shit done, because they feel threatened. If you care less about your feelings than they do about theirs, you come out on top. Simple as that.

    This is something geek woman after geek woman refuses to see. The fact that she’s treated like shit has nothing to do with who she is in the slightest, yet somehow it becomes all about her. After all, she is used to being important and visible. Nobody would call her a creep for talking to a stranger on the bus, nobody would scream “rapist” if she uses the men’s washroom because the women’s is out, nobody calls her a pedophile because she talks to a child in public.

    The difference is that every woman is considered valuable, unlike the men, so when a woman is offended and belittled, it’s a crime against humanity that must be shouted off the rooftops and addressed. Meanwhile men are expected to man up, even as they’re told they’re privileged.

    Here’s a tip: you are responsible for your own mental state. If people call you an idiot, stop giving a shit about what they think. I’ve published controversial stuff online. They question your expertise, your credentials, your honesty, your smarts, and everything in between. Someone even said I should be shot.

    I didn’t go online and write a big sob story, nor could I: nobody would’ve paid me any attention, as they do when it happens to a woman. I simply ignored them and proved them wrong, as I still do, every day.

    • ronia #
      December 29, 2012

      You should check your misogyny, its pretty obvious.

      • Ark-kun #
        December 30, 2012

        Please, leave your sexist remarks away and act politely.
        Thanks.

    • Bruce McGlory #
      December 30, 2012

      I’m gay as well but, unlike you, I’m not a cowardly misogynist or liar. Male spaces are not in any sense of the word meritocracies. they are spaces of privilege where untalented, unimaginative cowards can congregate to convince themselves that no one is as good at XYZ as they are. That this is because few others are allowed to compete is ignored, in favor of the delusion of superiority you so very clearly need to cling to.

      you’re an embarrassment to gay men.

    • Tads #
      January 2, 2013

      Geek women have problems keeping their hands to themselves? News to me! If a geek girl was getting obvious “shut the fuck up and leave me alone” vibes from someone they spoke to on a bus, they would shut up and stop making the person uncomfortable/annoyed.

      I get a huge read of “Women get attention from men just for being women and I don’t like it” from your post. Guess what, sometimes we don’t like it either.

  48. theimperialklifc #
    December 29, 2012

    The CryptoCommunity is the Privileged? I don’t understand the gripe is about – do you want to change the culture and be part of it? Or the culture must change to accept women?

    • Bruce McGlory #
      December 30, 2012

      You are not this dumb. Stop pretending to be.

  49. SJC #
    December 29, 2012

    sad…

    Im a kind of low hacker from a poor, corrupted and macho-matriarchal country with a mixed ethnic population, and my best IT and exact sciences professors were mostly women
    Maybe thats the main reason that makes me hard to comprehend how can still happen that kind of things, specially between people with so many resources, great colleges and supposedly high intellect

    But here is something else, what I see here (with my horrible genderless point of view), is a terrible form of arrogance
    Maybe the sexist part of it can be solved or patched, but the arrogance itself will take another form and dont know how that can be fixed (linux distro communities suffered that for a long time, and still exists)
    Arrogants lost the humility and maybe the empathy too, things that hard to recover

    So, I dont know if (or dont believe that) exists a inmediate solution to this swarm of idiots (Ill like to leave them isolated until they realize how idiots really are, but that may take eons)

    Well, I hope to see you again some day with a project like cryptoparty (something more slow paced, a cryptodate, a cryptodinner?), also you can try to mix a bit with CCommons people if want to change from a sick community but dont want to change much the subject.
    The world is big…
    Wherever you go, enjoy the trip

    Saludos

    • eekee #
      January 3, 2013

      I love your comment. I was just wondering how to put into words my observation that so many open-source coders aren’t as clever as they think they are, and talk down people who are better than them. Arrogance is exactly what’s wrong, and you’re right that it won’t go away. We need a kind of humility in the open-source world.

  50. anon #
    December 29, 2012

    Here are some website accessibility guidelines to help you make your website accessible to people with disabilities.

    http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/

    Your current design is very ableist which dehumanizes those of us with disabilities that would like to participate, have the right to participate in these conversations.

    Thank you for your attention to this.

    • Asher Wolf #
      December 29, 2012

      Hey, as someone who has vision problems myself, I’m really aware this website sucks for the vision impaired. I started using Word Press this morning, and when I figure out how to change the settings, I’ll increase font size and color. Thanks for bringing this issue up, it’s important.

      • Berend de Boer #
        December 29, 2012

        Don’t worry about the comment Asher. If this were really a person with a disability, they would be running an extension which with one click would switch the website to more suitable colours.

        And if they were a true hacker, they would press F12/Ctrl+Shift+I and change the CSS :-)

        • Ark-kun #
          December 30, 2012

          Always blaming the victim, aren’t you?
          He never said he’s a hacker, yet you took the liberty to shove him away because he doesn’t know how to change CSS. You’re just like those assholes who pushed Asher away. You also seem to be a creeper pretending to be friendly.

        • anon #
          December 30, 2012

          Asher, I am sorry you were hacked. Truly, very sorry.

          Berend, blow me that my disability does not match up to your needs.

          As I wrote above, my eyes are beginning to fail, so no, up to this point, all I usually need is to a) increase font size, or b) click a bookmarklet that eliminates the css. Maybe one day you can tell me when my disability meets your necessary white privlieged male IT guy’s standards.

          In the meantime, the styles used at the prior site, were very difficult to read, and I was certainly not the only person to have mentioned that.

          • February 6, 2013

            I’d like to issue an apology about my previous comment. I’m coming to this late and didn’t know the site had been changed, but also assumed that you would have a screen reader if your vision be failing and mine currently works. Apologies for that part.

            The ablism/sexism comparison, however, doesn’t hold. That part of my comment I stand behind.

    • Asher Wolf #
      December 29, 2012

      Sure as hell hurts my eyes, at the very least.

  51. December 29, 2012

    I actually read every word of this. With all due respect, you seem to be completely missing the point. “Thorns should not prick me, ever” does not seem like a reasonable position to take. In much the same vein it does not seem reasonable to expect that “the hacker community” is going to en masse engage in civil behavior. The whole point of “the hacker community” is to engage in various types of civil disobedience (usually, pathologically so). Often times in flagrant ignorance of any “Other” involved. “I love playing with wolves but I wish they wouldn’t try to rip my arms off and eat them” I could make these up for days. Yes, of course the hacker community is filled with privileged white males who have a plethora of social dysfunctions. Who else has the time or motivation to spend 36 hours looking at hex? or compile LFS, etc etc. Your quotes from Jacob Appelbaum seemed rather benign, I am not sure what about them was upsetting to you. Ironically, you are displaying the same inability to process the behaviors and situations of others that you are complaining about. In many regards you seem like a good fit for the hacker community.

    Cheers.

    • Bruce McGlory #
      December 30, 2012

      With all due respect, you may have read the piece, but you clearly didn’t understand it. Men are not idiotic man-children incapable of learning how to behave in public. And fuck you for suggesting that we are.

      Ironically, you complete inability to comprehend what you read, coupled with your embarrassing douceplaining proved her point in spades.

      • January 2, 2013

        Bruce, you’ve made some comments that I’ve disagreed with, but again I’m +1-ing you here. I don’t agree with this person’s portrayal of men, hackers, or anything.

  52. Messgorough Ulaire #
    December 29, 2012

    It’s such a shame that this promising idea floundered in an area that the internet should flourish. Ultimate inclusionism is supposed to be the absolute goal for the internet with everyone being able the access and find a place.

    This should have been another shining example of the internet coming together like the Raspberry Pi project to give everyone a £30 computer. Who ultimately loses out though is the community at large which is the biggest regret of all.

    Where I like in the UK we don’t have this gift and in my county running Linux is generally considered witchcraft. How dare those who freely abuse this knowledge and gift have the snobbery to turn others away from it?

    Young lady I wholeheartedly salute and beg you will continue teaching your obvious skills in some form to those who wish to learn.

    You are an inspiration, never stop fighting.

  53. Anonymous3 #
    December 29, 2012

    LOL BUTTHURT

    • Bruce McGlory #
      December 30, 2012

      LOL bitter angry virgin!

  54. Saigo #
    December 29, 2012

    In the last 5 years I haven’t met even ONE woman I could talk to, technical and social. Every woman I met at camps, congresses etcpp. was there as a wifey/girlfriend or social media whatever. If I want to talk about technical stuff I have to talk to men… it sucks, for several reasons. I’m pissed off by both men and women. By men because they tend to treat women like little dumb girls and by women, because they behave that way.

    You want a website… learn html, xhtml and css. You have a problem with your computer/os/application, take them apart, learn how they are working, educate yourself. All the knowledge, especially regarding free software is at your fingertips, use it. Don’t do the damsel in distress act, when network or computers behave strangely, take it apart, analyze it, fix it.

    As someone with a ‘high’ technical skill set I never experienced harassment at any conference or congress I took part in and I think it was because the men knew exactly what I could do, that it never was an issue at all.

    When I have to wait another 5years for meeting a woman I can finally talk to on a certain level… it will be too long. I’m 34, a single mother of an 11year, working as a devop in the industry and I really wish for female company who does more than knitting and social media/politics at the 30c3 .

    • Ark-kun #
      December 30, 2012

      This are exactly my thoughts. I hope they would be more acceptable since they come from a woman.
      Internet is anonymous and genderless by default. If you want to be a “human in tech”, then LEARN tech and DO tech.

      I feel deeply sorry for you. Being unable to talk about you passion, because people don’t understand you is horrible.

      I felt so happy when I saw my wife finally learned to program and started enjoying it. She’s drawing much more than programming, but that doesn’t matter, what matters is the ability. Somehow there is a impassable barrier between being able to program and being unable to do it. I’m glad that she’s managed to cross it.

    • ronia #
      January 1, 2013

      If you would open up to some of the activist/social media types you would notice they are actually capable of way more things than you give them credit for. Even if they aren’t, why not cherish the fact they are there to do exactly that: educate themselves. I have met loads of women* capable of great things at hacker cons, you might be very biased.

      At those conferences it is often totaly fine for men to be activists or not very technically skilled. People just assume they are, so that is the way many not-so-leet (male) people, whatever that means, have a cover.

      Not everybody at a hacker conference is a hacker in your sense, but that doesn’t mean they are not interested in hacking or in learning or taking shit apart.

      There is only so much time for people on this planet, so if they choose to use some of that time to do whatever the fuck they want, who are you to criticize them. Also, one of the hardware hackers with the maddest skills (I know) knits and hacks fabric like there is no tomorrow.

      You haven’t been harassed, and thats great. But many are, and who are you to make the connection to their skillset. It has nothing to do with how great you are with your root magic, or your programming skills or whatever, it has nothing to do with what you wear or how tough or cute or shy or ugly you are. This shit happens, and victim-blaming helps perpetuating this shit. So please stop.

    • January 2, 2013

      I don’t see what the relevance is of your not finding other women with technical skills? You speak as though having ‘da skillz’ entitles you to not have to suffer harassment. People shouldn’t be harassed or disrespected regardless of the skills they do or don’t have. Everyone has to start somewhere, and if someone is starting on their journey then we should support them, not disrespect them.

      I was at 29c3, and was surprised by the number of very technical talks given by women. Maybe you should have been there.

      • saigo #
        January 16, 2013

        There was exactly FIVE technical good talks there. ONE of them was given by women.

    • Mackenzie #
      January 9, 2013

      Aw, we’re not allowed to knit at cons now? Damn, between Ada Camp and Hackers On Planet Earth I knit a pretty nice linen t-shirt!

  55. hax #
    December 29, 2012

    Somewhat alarmist, I’d say, to lead with accusations of rape without then any further reference.

    Incongruous also to start a “DIY” technology outfit and then complain that you couldn’t get someone else to build a website.

    The hacker community should be about hackers, not women or men. If a person wants in, hack. No ifs, buts or excuses – hack first. Thats the entry fee.

    I sympathise wholly with the unpleasant manner in which some have comminicated. I must agree that an intent and desire to learn is essential, and this article offers no evidence that you demonstrated this.

    • Asher Wolf #
      December 29, 2012

      Sorry, you’re wanting me to personally accuse someone of rape to prove rape exists?

      • Ark-kun #
        December 30, 2012

        I don’t know where he got the rape part. Don’t see that in your post… If it’s there, then he has a point. Don’t hide the rapists from the law. You need to clean the world that we live in.

        The rest of hax’ post is completely sensible. Don’t you agree with that?

    • toothlesstiger #
      December 30, 2012

      Hmm, sorry you never bothered to learn how to understand what you read. Asher made it quite clear she is not a hacker or cryptographer, but was trying to build a bridge so that cryptographers and hackers could (wait for it) TEACH those who lack the talent or time to bootstrap their own skills in cryptography. If only self-starting hackers, who are few in number, can use crypto, I’m afraid they’ll be the first ones against the wall when the “dangerous element” needs to be eliminated. Hackers like to exclude, based on perceived ability. That will leave them an easy-to-target minority.

      • January 2, 2013

        toothless tiger, you know what time it is!

      • diggle #
        March 29, 2013

        Which is exactly why she got blow back from the hackers. It’s hard for a leader to command respect from those he/she is leading when/he she doesn’t know much about what he/she is leading. Even harder when he/she walks into a foreign culture, and then immediately judges them and demands they change their behavior. It’s a common amateur mistake.

  56. Patternguru714 #
    December 29, 2012

    Very well-said and apropos. Your experiences not only reveal gender-bias, but an organizational irony. If such small groups are fraught with the same issues as the corporate or bureaucratic agencies they criticize, perhaps crowd-based/hive-based cultures have some thinking to do. That aside, you should know many support your drive and respect your experience, even those of us “watching from the wings.” I hope you don’t allow ad hominem insults to detract from your victimization. Keep up the good work in whatever path you choose, you’re an amazing person.

    PG714

  57. December 29, 2012

    Wow I know exactly how it feels when people in your community and people outside of it that you hoped were on board with your values turn out to really disappoint you.

    EXACTLY.

    BTW, trying to bring crypto to the masses is something I have worked on since 2008 and failed at. Yes it’s very hard to get people who are not much into nuts and bolts to go out of their way to encrypt stuff. You’d have to build it into the mouse clicks to make sure they did it every time. Of course my UI development skills suck to all hell and that was no help. Might as well batch script OpenSSL commands and then go have a beer.

    In the end, seeing how nobody can get under one banner (that would be liberty, BTW) and everybody wants to pick and choose what’s important to them, I can understand Asher’s comment about joining the stormtroopers. If nothing is going to keep the boot off our neck, then comes the decision to be the one wearing the boot.

    Seeing people cherry-pick liberty (as I have seen Asher do, hackers do, web activists do, etc) means that there will be plenty of boots on necks, and plenty to fill. Thomas Jefferson warned us about this.

    And that, at the end of the day, is heartbreaking. You see, when you watch old films of people being lined up in front of trenches, and executed (usually Holocaust stuff), and they sit there and wait for it, you can wonder “why the hell do they sit there and wait to be executed?”. Well, nobody is, at this very moment, going to be dragged out of their house to be put before a firing line without a fight. But those people you see in those old films, THEY ALREADY LOST ALL HOPE, FRIENDS, FAMILY, FUTURE and that comes in the form of betrayal, selling out, and abandonment.
    Anybody would patiently wait to be executed and dropped in the trench under those circumstances.

    I’ve already done my crying. But it’s nice to see that reality and consequences can drive a point home faster and deeper than anything else.

    Asher, Sorry things didn’t work out for you. Sorry that you have to learn the lessons that I have to learn, over and over. I loved the idea of crypto parties, BTW.

    It happens.

    Better luck next time.

  58. Tomcat #
    December 29, 2012

    I find it shocking how some people behave.

    I’m not involved with a lot of hackers, but I’m a member of the Pirate Party, and we have similar issues. Thanks for your post, as it is again a dreadful report on what I have to watch out for to keep our groups accessible for women.

    Continue your good work in whatever you do in the future.

  59. December 29, 2012

    Thank you for the blog, Asherwolf.

    I have a Master’s degree in maths, and I have worked professionally on a ‘Cold War’ cryptography project back in 1983. I have followed the theory behind PGP, and am always willing to explain this to people but it would still take a few hours.

    I have attended some student hacker groups in the 2000s and as an older person I
    found it hard to understand the jargon, and also the glib self confidence shown by the hackers, many of who were running WiFi enabled computers while I was unable to even
    afford an internet connection.

    These experts think it nothing to install a souped up version of Linux in 20 minutes,
    but in practice I have found installing Linux takes several days.

    There are too many ‘experts’ who forget how hard things were when they were beginners. Experts must take into account that things are always getting harder for beginners: in the late 70s and early 80s many computers came with programming manuals. These days are well and truly over. The emphasis of the capitalist system is the production of devices where user programming is impossible, and certainly invalidates any guarantee on the product. Same goes with installation of software that
    seeks to evade things like compulsory content filtering, as advocated by certain pressure groups in the UK.

    There is a lot of pressure on computer users to accept software updates even when it takes time to learn how to use the old system. Even Zukerberg’s sister has has fallen foul of Facebook changes. Sometimes update of one part of the system requires updates to other parts of the system. What this means is that the only people expected to do creative things with computers are manufacturers rather than end users.

    • Ark-kun #
      December 30, 2012

      How is this relevant to the Asher’s problems? Are you implying that learning something is harder for a woman than it is for a man? Stop that sexism. Women are perfectly capable of learning something.

    • Tads #
      January 2, 2013

      No, they’re saying time, money, and a lack of well rounded knowledge base as starting position are fairly big barriers to becoming an expert overnight. Until you’ve had a toddler to look after alone you’ll never get it.

  60. shady #
    December 29, 2012

    i’d be nice to find the person who designed those creeper cards, and do something like this:

    “you designed this ? i give you this creeper card for this creeper card”
    optional: “are you insane ? how should women here feel?”

  61. john #
    December 30, 2012

    “Ultimate inclusionism is supposed to be the absolute goal for the internet with everyone being able the access and find a place.”

    that’s not a vision, it’s utopia. the reason is simple: costs. individuals and hence the society (or the societies) align their resources with expected egoistic benefits.

    it’s also the reason why most people care much about the security of their off- and online banks and not so much about encrypting their e-mail or anonymous internet browsing.

    it’s tough times for minorities (unless you’re part of a minority with lots of power i.e. money), but it’s the way it is. sorry for destroying your dreams.

    that said, women in tech are a minority indeed (as are men in e.g. childcare professions), though women per se aren’t.

    • Bruce McGlory #
      December 30, 2012

      So, in other words, just suck it up and suffer with it because men are useless assholes who can’t change? fuck you and your misandry.

  62. December 30, 2012

    Regrettable loss for the movement.

  63. darkcookie #
    December 30, 2012

    Dear Asher,

    im at 29c3 and saw your tweet re-tweeted that many times.

    I would like to comment a few points:

    1. For most of the male nerds, competent and self-confident female nerds are some type of dream woman. Therefore women will be handled differently by men, it’s biology. And it’s mostly positive in my experience. For example my wife is able to get a lot of more help from other men than I would be able to ever get.

    2. If you are a nice guy (like me) and very positive about women, this whole red/yellow card system might be offensive. And I have to be honest, I’m pre-cautious about women propagading such a system even if I would be all-positive in other cases.

    3. There are always assholes and especially in the hacker scene some guys are somewhat anti-social. But this happens to men, too! I just ignore those guys.

    4. Don’t understand me wrong: Of course any inappropriate behaviour of men against woman is unacceptable!

    5. Most things you described in your article could have also happened to men. Strip down your article to the problems which evidentially happend to you because you are a female and see what’s left.

    6. This brings me to my last point and please don’t be offended by it: Most of the things might have happened to you, because of your behaviour and actions in this special situation and not because you are female.

    Best regards, darkcookie

  64. December 30, 2012

    Tools shape the way you think.

    Physical tools shape how you perceive a situation and the range of solutions that are available to you.

    Mental tools even more so.

    You get programmers who will argue about which programming language to use.

    It’s annoying that techies don’t apply a similar rigour to the way they communicate.

    We’ve had similar problems at the hackspace i use.

    It’s not been as bad as the experiences you’ve had. Maybe it’s because the average age of our members is over 30 years old, maybe it’s because we’ve tried to make a conscious effort to avoid this problem, but it’s still there nonetheless. That said, we’re still trying to fix this.

    Interesting article in a similar vein, http://fivewithflores.com/2012/12/words-mean-things-by-patrick-chapin/

  65. December 30, 2012

    I’m sorry that you took my comments as having sexist undertones. That certainly wasn’t intentional and I apologize.

    I was trying to address the fact that human society overall seems to degrade *all* people who try or even express that they might want to try to improve things. Often when a hacker wants to build a thing, we see people only telling them that they shouldn’t bother or when they want to learn, a similar negative pattern emerges. I was merely trying to address that kind of generally oppressive attitude that is a quite prevalent subtext in our community. We beat up on ourselves and others too often.

    I think you’re generally right about the issues of sexism in the community and it generally reflects the world at large. There is far too much hateful shit in the air – it comes from a lot of places and it would be great if we could resolve it overall.

    As far as the Crypto Party/PrivateGSM stuff goes – I was trying to experiment with a new device that only supported PrivateGSM (ie: no redphone, textsecure, etc – iOS for the loss); sadly, PrivateGSM did not work on the platform that I was using and I simply ran out of time before the event. I thought I had apologized previously but well, obviously that wasn’t conveyed properly — so, I’ll repeat by saying that I’m sorry for not being able to participate after accepting your invitation.

    I think I should add that I was quite surprised to find myself as an example in your blog post. I personally wonder why you hadn’t mentioned this harbored resentment to me during the private conversations we’ve had lately. It really feels disrespectful and I hope that in the future, if you’re upset with me or with something I have or haven’t done, that you’ll talk with me directly.

    • Asher Wolf #
      December 30, 2012

      Maybe I am disrespectful towards you nowadays. I apologise.

      You used to be one of the ppl I looked up to. The interactions we had around cryptoparty definitely undermined my respect for you.

      The first paragraph of the article explains it’s not just a post about sexism and misogyny.

      The post explains the small events over time that led to me quitting. Some of the interactions I had with you around Cryptoparty played into the outcome.

      You have resources, freedom to move, networks to do things. Every few weeks you’re traveling to a new hacker space, meeting a celebrity, working on an international project.

      Each thing I do – each tweet, each email, each response – is scraped from a situation with barely no time or space to myself, with limited resources.

      I suspect it may be impossible for you to understand what I go through just to do things that for you seem simple and easy.

      If you did, I suspect you wouldn’t have tested out PrivateGSM on me, 48hrs before Cryptoparty launched here in Melbourne, without testing it on yourself first.

      I spent hours feeling stupid, not understanding why PrivateGSM wasn’t working, having put in hours of working on it, not wanting to seem like I wasn’t trying.

      Reading your comments on LiberationTech’s email list questioning if I was willing to learn – I was livid.

      Of course I’m teachable, but sometimes learning conditions are impossible.

      You never admitted PrivateGSM wasn’t working for you either until now, by the way. You told me you were installing it. And then you cancelled.

      I only guessed that you’d had problems, when I asked a bunch of people to try it out for me and a number of them had problems installing it.

      I apologise for not bringing these issues up with you sooner. I always restricted my private comments to you, trying only to engage on a basis of ‘getting things done.’

      Community means talking about stuff publicly, not just code and crypto. And that dialogue wasn’t fostered. The technical suggestions you made to me didn’t work, the projects you suggested were out of my ability and the comments you made on LibTech left me feeling two-inches tall.

      I felt like my contribution was consistently under-valued, abused, and taken for granted.

      I should have raised issues, with a number of people, but felt the working relationships were too fragile to push the card by saying anything.

      Anyway, now I’ve said how I felt and I’ve been hacked, d0x’d and had every private affair since 2001 raised publicly in the last 24hrs.

      Thank you for your response. I’ll keep in mind your comments.

      • December 31, 2012

        Apology accepted, I hope the feeling is mutual but I have the feeling that it might be not entirely.

        I realize that the article is not just about sexism and misogyny; it doesn’t however feel great to be mentioned in the article as it conflates some non-sexist, non-misogynistic interactions we’ve had personally. Without our personal context, I think that people will read it as you calling me out for being a sexist, misogynistic jerk; a few people at the Congress here did actually ask me if that was the case. I found it to be utterly frustrating if only because our private context is entirely left out.

        I understand that there are different things that challenge each of us and I have tried my best to support you in your efforts. I have also given my honest opinions and tried to be extremely understanding of the contexts. That is why I have tirelessly helped Nadim with CryptoCat, why I tried to give constructive feedback about CryptoParty, and of course why I offered you my full support in your other project that I won’t name here.

        When you suggest that I travel freely, I feel that you downplay the issues that I have faced and still face. It feels extremely insulting and yet I don’t hold onto it. Just as I cannot know fully what your experience is and how much you struggle, I know that my life probably looks like a cake walk. Things are not as they seem and that is exactly why I stated in my keynote that conflict resolution, mutual aid and solidarity should be community goals. I think that working towards higher goals is a good idea!

        I try my best to support your efforts and have put in quite a lot of time, energy and good will in solidarity with your causes. I try to give you the benefit of the doubt and harbor no ill will towards you; if I had an issue, I’d talk with you directly and honestly.

        I didn’t “test” PrivateGSM out on you. I use it all the time – I simply had a new device and didn’t have my other normal device with me. As I said, I couldn’t install it properly. I was trying to hack it together to help you out – the issues you had on your end weren’t related to the fact that my setup wasn’t working. I’m sorry that the setup wasn’t a great experience but I hope you realize that in this case, we’re both users at the mercy of the software vendor. :(

        I never at any point suggested that you didn’t want to learn – rather, I stated that the way you phrased things felt dis-empowering. Both in a self-deprecating manner and in a way that is all too common in our community. I was *trying* to be supportive with what I said and it doesn’t seem that even now my intentions are reaching you. I’m not really sure what else to say about the topic, so perhaps I’ll just stop trying to re-state my intentions.

        I’m sorry you’re having a hard time and I think it i utter bullshit that you’re being attacked for having this dialog. I hope in the future that things will be more respectful all around.

        • Mackenzie #
          January 9, 2013

          I read the interaction of “I can’t do it as I don’t know the stuff” and “anyone can learn!” as ignoring time constraints. She *could* learn all the stuff to write the manual…but seeing as she lacks a time machine, she didn’t learn it all in under 4 days to write it. So then saying “you can learn” about something that’s already happened…sounds like “well maybe you should’ve actually tried!” It’s like when your parents lecture you after a bad exam for not studying hard enough… “okaaaaaaaaaaaay mom, I get it, I should study, but what’s done is done.”

      • March 5, 2013

        I hope Asher will not back down from her critique of Jacob Appelbaum. He’s one of the worst bad actors in this space, and gives the entire thing a bad name.

        This:

        “If you did, I suspect you wouldn’t have tested out PrivateGSM on me, 48hrs before Cryptoparty launched here in Melbourne, without testing it on yourself first.”

        And this sheer chutzpah of this:

        “I didn’t “test” PrivateGSM out on you. I use it all the time – I simply had a new device and didn’t have my other normal device with me.”

        In other words, “Yes, I did test it on you because I was too lazy to have my other device with me for testing myself.”

        When I saw Appelbaum give a public speech and saw his unaccountable behaviour (telling people to dig up cables and destroy them to somehow thwart the government’s surveillance — a ridiculous idea and a felony) — I realized part of what holds him up isn’t just this outrageous behaviour and the salivation for hipsters, it’s young boys barely out of their teens or still in their teens who worship him. I watched as he came up to a group of these swooning fanboyz and gave them all stickers and they were just thrilled.

        http://3dblogger.typepad.com/wired_state/2011/02/the-unaccountable-jacob-appelbaum.html

  66. Ark-kun #
    December 30, 2012

    “We need to talk” is a probably untrue title.
    First of all, I don’t think that you really want a dialogue. This is understandable given what you went through and the your “fuck you” which was your response. But it’s still bad that you start manipulations from the get go.
    I’ve seen some blog posts from “women in tech” with similar stories and I know that you will never ever answer my comment. The authors of such posts only ever answer two kinds of comments: chauvinistic “blame yourself” and feministic “men are animals”. The authors never respond to the constructive or critical comments.
    I know this is a stereotype of woman, but this seems to be true for these authors (including you): They want consolation, not critique.

    I’ll still try to comment on your post.

    It’s interesting that you’ve mentioned the story with the insecure CryptoCat tool. (I agree that the author is acting immature.)
    There was similar story not long ago with quite a different ending. Some woman wrote an insecure crypto tool. A woman journalist wrote an article about the tool encouraging everyone to use it. Some researcher (who turned out to be male) found the tool to be insecure and wrote a blog post outlining the problems and criticizing the journalist for encouraging the use of a security tool without it being evaluated by experts. What happened next was bizarre. The woman journalist attacked the security expert telling that he was just putting down the tool because it was made by a woman. She also said that nobody should believe his words, because they weren’t from a female security expert. The level of feminism/sexism of that story was surreal.

    There are two parts of the problem.
    The first part is the bad behavior of the people that you’ve met. It’s undeniable and we don’t even need to discuss that: it’s bad and something has to be done with that.
    But another part is your behavior and your attitude.

    Let me illustrate that: Sure, thievery is very bad; but is it wise to leave your purse and smartphone in the middle of an Asian flea market? It’s a bit unwise to wave a red cloth at a bull even though the bull would be wrong to attack you.
    Your situation is the same. Sure, people need to greatly improve their behavior; but if you want an practical immediate result, you need to consider how you interact with them.
    I’m not blaming the victim. I’m giving advice to the victim as how not to become a victim again (while trying to improve the people of the world).

    What you refuse to comprehend is that this story would have been the same if you were male, not female. If a male behaved exactly like you did in the same situations the story would have unfolded the same way. Sure, the insults would be different, but everything else would be very similar.
    He’d be ridiculed, called names and never respected. The difference is that a male wouldn’t normally behave like you did. He’d most probably never allowed himself to be dragged down like you did. And of some asshole would grope him, he’d punch the asshole in the face, not hug his friend to make that stop. Having “balls” to stand up for oneself is what makes a difference.

    You see sexism where in fact there is little.

    You problem is being gullible and inability to stand by yourself.
    When you tolerate disrespect, the disrespect is sure to come.
    You gave $700 to some asshole and let him steal that.
    You’ve let some other assholes to talk crap about you.
    You’ve let your “helpers” steal your idea from you.
    Why does it happen with women more often? It happens because men won’t normally let that crap slide and the assholes know that.

    This whole story phenomenon has nothing to do with tech. Go to a pony convention and everything would be even worse. Are you going to write a blog post titled “Cartoon watchers, we need to talk?”

    You should have written two posts instead: “People, stop being assholes and bullies” and “People, stop tolerating the assholes and bullies”. That would actually be useful.

    There two mutually exclusive views on women: either you consider women and men to be equal or you consider them to be different. You can’t have both.
    If women and men are equal, then you shouldn’t talk about “respecting women” – only about “respecting people”. You shouldn’t consider it insult when men don’t treat you specially, just because you’re “woman in tech”.

    You titled yourself “woman in tech”…
    Well, I know many women DOING tech. Everyone respects them for what they’re doing.
    You, on the other hand, have no respect (from what you wrote).
    Why aren’t people respecting you?
    People respect people who do something great.
    There are people who DO tech. They know how to work with tech professionally. Other respect them for that.
    There are people who work with tech people, manage them, organize events and so on. They know how to work people professionally. Other respect them for that.
    You on the other hand are neither. You don’t DO tech and you fail at managing people (as you’ve described in your post). You are gullible and you couldn’t even force an asshole to make you a website or return your money.
    So, why is anyone going to respect you? Just because you are a “woman in tech”? Do they respect “dummy boys in tech”? No. Should you have their respect just because you’re woman? You completely undermine the real women who DO tech (tech, not blog posts about tolerating harassment).
    Well, you had some idea, but it turned out that you didn’t have enough skills to execute it and didn’t have enough people skills to gather a faithful team (you’ve recruited assholes instead). So the people who “helped” you took your idea from you. That’s unfortunate, but it’s understandable.

    P.S. Should we consider your “fuck you” a verbal rape? (BTW, did anyone say the same to you, or you were the sole offender?)

    • ronia #
      January 1, 2013

      What you are doing is victim-blaming. Women fall more often victim to certain types of abuse and assault, because of the sexist way this society is structured. Women are seen as less worthy then men, so the same rights of defense, verbal or physical, do not get applied to them. So offenders see a rule-to-be-offended with women where they see an unbreakable right with men.

      So women are being treated as prey, and get assaulted or wronged. And when they do, they get blamed for it. By people like you. So not only can you not stand up for yourself without being degraded to a “bitch” or “crazy” or without being criminalized, nobody else will standup for you, because its supposedly your own fault.

    • Maki #
      January 7, 2013

      I think you’re here honestly looking for a dialogue about women in tech and the problems they face, so I’ll take it upon myself to continue the conversation, if that’s agreeable to you. Much like Asher, I am not extremely technologically proficient in the eyes of the hacking community. I have taken the first part of an Introduction to Programming course at my local community college, which ended before we started actually writing our first “Hello World” programs. I did teach myself HTML, CSS, and some XML when I was younger, but a lot of my knowledge has become highly depreciated over the years. I am currently one of two women (in a class of 30+ people) enrolled in a two-year Audio Engineering program with a focus on landing a career straight-away.

      Now that my credentials are out there, let me ask you something. If I were talking to someone about a non-technical field, would I need to list my credentials before weighing in on my experience as a member of my gender attempting to find my place in that field? I should think male caregivers are not expected to talk about how much they babysat growing up or whether or not they took care of younger siblings throughout the years before complaining that they do not receive the same support as female caregivers. Why do I feel expected to defend my position as a “woman in tech,” where the man in care-giving can take it for granted that no one will pull a “no true Scotsman” attack against him?

      The answer lies in what you and many above you have stated:

      [quote][T]his story would have been the same if you were male, not female. If a male behaved exactly like you did in the same situations the story would have unfolded the same way. Sure, the insults would be different, but everything else would be very similar. He’d be ridiculed, called names and never respected.[/quote]

      Technology, as a community, disregards the feelings of anyone it deems not knowledgeable or experienced enough. When a community touts itself on being a “meritocracy” which is blind to race, sex, orientation, or age and only cares about putting forward a good product, it inadvertently makes it that much harder for anyone who is not incredibly blessed with money and free time to find a footing. People who are marginalized in the “real world” outside of the Internet are often worse-off financially and in terms of the amount of time they can spend on hobbies, leading to an over-representation of white male techno-geeks.

      So yes, this has a lot to do with the fact that the author is a mother. When people’s attacks against her specifically target her gender, it just drives home the idea that people like her aren’t wanted. If you can’t dedicate all of your time to the cause, you’re worthless to a great many of the people in the tech world. Whether you’re a mother, a caregiver to the elderly, a student who works two jobs, a political activist, or just bogged down with too much work from your primary job, the message is clear: go away and let someone with more time and knowledge handle the job.

      When women “allow themselves to get dragged down” by the hateful messages the community sends our way, it’s largely because this is the same type of misogyny we face outside of the tech scene. In the job market, we’re told we can’t receive equal pay because we’re likely to become mothers and spend large amounts of time on leave from work. On the street we’re reduced to our gender when men find it acceptable to cat-call, stalk, and harass. Men tell women starting into tech that in the meritocracy of hacker spaces, our gender doesn’t matter. It doesn’t take long for us to be cut down by that meritocracy framework which denies us the ability to be both mother and hacker. It takes even less time for us to learn that harassment is an ever-present threat in online spaces. The difference is that in the real world, we’re less likely to be told that this is just the way things work, and we ought just to ignore it. After all, the Internet is not “real life.”

      When we reach out to the community, it may very well be with a certain amount of vitriol. We’re hurting. We’re trying to tell the community how it’s hurting us. In western culture, we often mask our pain with anger. I’m also fairly certain that if we spoke about how sad we are that we’re being dissuaded from being active participants in tech culture rather than how angry we’re getting, men would take us even less seriously. You yourself said we needed to be assertive against people who wronged us. You know, right after you said that we were attacking the wrong target by being angry with the community as a whole. And before you claimed that “fuck you” is the verbal equivalent to rape. I’m not actually sure what tone you’d like us to use when voicing our complaints, actually.

      Asher was attempting to create a program which bridged the gap between experts and beginners, only to be cut down by a community which denies the experiences and hardships of its beginners and cuts them down in a way I’ve not experienced anywhere else. Only geek spaces are so hateful towards their new entries as to make up a slur targeted specifically against them: n00b.

  67. December 30, 2012

    It sucks that Jacob Applebaum is part of the problem.

    Please don’t give up.

    Take a break, but don’t give up on your ideas. This shitty male patriarchy is dying and being shitty as it dies.

    Don’t let it keep you down.

    I suspect it won’t.

    Thanks for writing this.

  68. voline #
    December 30, 2012

    I’m in my 40s, had many jobs in many different industries. Offices, construction, restaurant kitchens, in a factory …. In high school I played on the (American) football team. But the most consistently sexist group of men I have ever been around was the “Mac Genius” team at an Apple Store.

    Tech has a sexism problem.

  69. December 30, 2012

    I don’t like censorship. I believe everyone has the right to be heard and speaking their thoughts, opinions, and ideas. We’re all born with a voice and no one has the right to deny anyone of that voice.

    Whoever keeps trying to silence you clearly does not understands or respects that general idea and fundamental human right.

  70. rakingmuck (@rakingmuck) #
    December 30, 2012

    I cannot thank you enough for being BRAVE enough to bring this out into the open. I cried a river on Friday night after a tweet was misinterpreted and I was mauled by 5 Anon hackers. Words used: ignorant, stupid and worse. I was so upset I blocked every Anon account – even those I love dearly. But I have never been attacked on Twitter so ferociously and it cannot and will not happen again especially because I was speaking about the girl who died from being gang raped in India. Words, cruel unnecessary words, hurt deep.

  71. Susannarchy #
    December 30, 2012

    Hi Im not a hacker just an activist and also a mother of a young child. As such I do take an interest in those aspects of tech stuff that can help counteract surveillance by the state and other baddies. I just wanted to say I stumbled across your blog post on Twitter today and felt it was a really powerful message. And to send you some solidarity from the UK. Its fucing amazing anyway to hear of other mothers who are doing cool stuff and standing up for what they believe in. Childcare is a complete fucker I know. But it sounds like you have been doing some realy amazing work, and you will surely find another avenue to express yourself and your skills.

    In solidarity,

    S x

  72. JT #
    December 30, 2012

    Asher,

    I respect a lot of what you have to say here, and appreciate that your experiences and those of other women in these spaces is one which must be paid attention to, to ensure the inclusivity of all participants.

    But I also feel some of what you have written is conflated into the context of gender marginalization, when it may not be, or there may be other ways of reading it. Of course, it is difficult for you or anyone to read any isolated events outside of this context; but I feel it is also problematic to read *all* of these events *only* from inside this context.

    We obviously can’t step outside of our gender and all the patriarchal bullsh*t that identity inherits, but we also can’t equate all of our experiences as only being a consequence of that identity.

    From what you have written, I have no doubt that some of your experiences are a direct result of sexism, and that is outrageous. However, some of your experiences of bullying–which in itself is appalling, of course–can’t automatically *all* be equated with sexism. These types of microcultures are often inherently diseased with bullying behaviours irrespective of gender (or other identities): men also do it to men, and women do it to men, and to each other, as well. Yes, patriarchy means it is more loaded when women are the recipients from men, but I do think it is problematic and limiting to women if the starting position is always if a man is anything but perfect to a woman, it is sexist. I don’t like the singularity of the position of victimhood that position assigns my gender, or conversely, the equally disturbing singular narrative available to men.

    So, to me, the majority of what you experienced is–to quote you–douchebaggery, but some of what you experienced is downright sexism / misogyny which is appalling. The latter must be exposed and vehemently fought by all participants; conflating the former into this category gives your detractors a distraction, and IMHO, undermines the importance of your overall points.

    Written with nothing but respect for your work and writing.

  73. Shaggy #
    December 30, 2012

    Fuck the haters Asher. Keep being you. It’s why I look up to you. You take allot of bullshit for someone who wants to help regardless to income or lack of.

  74. CycleMan #
    December 30, 2012

    Asher,
    Overall you did a GREAT service to the non-hacker community.
    You educated us! In fact more than that, you lead us to the door and yes, we opened it! I certainly did and know a whole lot more about my presence on the internet.
    I know you may not read this, but someone out there may and appreciate what I am about to say.
    Unfortunately, most hackers and those that know down to the binary of any system, have come from reclusive, single-minded family backgrounds where computers are basically another set of arms or legs. Very few of us (yes, me included) have any good social skills let alone the guts and the will to approach a woman / man and ask them out on a date for example. The mind set of a hacker is to wear masks to suit the social environment, but their true identity, their true nature is only really revealed in cyberspace – just like you did above, putting your feelings, your emotions and TRUTH out there. That to me takes guts. Hackers have guts but only in their own individual narcicist world of “make believe” – ie where people are pawns and they know it all.
    I remember many years ago when computers were at their infancy, even before the IBM XT, there were home “computers” like the Coleco or the Tandy TRS80. I remember walking into a Tandy store seeing a guy writing some really cool code to generate a TRON like game (yeah movies are our world!), and asking him if I could view the code as I thought it was cool and complimented him on it. WOAH man, I could have been asking him for a blowjob when he reacted to me frothing at the mouth blastering all the adjectives that only the Devil should know! I was basically belittled, like a no body, how dare I, and who gives a shit whether I would appreciate or compliment his work.
    Well the bloody idiot left the code behind because he thought of himself as a hero and I stole it! Yeah baby! I felt no shame. I took the code and managed to write a neat set of games from it which I later, years later sold to Melbourne House Publishing. Woah… those were the days and saved up enough for me to buy my own car when I turned 18!
    So you see Asher, what you did was amazing and it basically gave me a wake up call as a hacker today to realise that we are all humans. And all decent humans should know the truth out there just like Asange has amazingly done.
    We need more people like you, but as someone else may have said above…. you cannot fix the world single handedly. None of us can.
    Only knowledge and education, will free us from the tyranny of governments and “pseudo hackers” out there that really report to pay cheques and cash handouts, because unfortunately money talks!
    I will start my own CyrptoParty here, but it will be exclusive and it will probably be a one on one event with a handful of people later on. Just like cyberspace, we need to KNOW who comes to these parties and yeah… I love the idea of a prep-talk before the “show” on basic morals and respect. Employers have them – they call them “code of conduct” guidelines. We should have them too!
    Cheeers

  75. Adam #
    December 30, 2012

    It takes a lot of courage to call out an establishment as wrong. Not many people have that king of guts, which is a shame. Keep fighting for what you believe in.

    • January 1, 2013

      That “fight” belongs to everyone these days. It’s only a question of “when” you recognize it. For it matters not where you live, there is someone always trying to silence everyone.

  76. roid #
    December 30, 2012

    Anita Sarkeesian gave an interesting talk on TEDxTalks (youtube) this month about the topic. I wonder if the issues are snowballing – that’ll be good.

    Saw a queer bike club organised at a Brisbane bicycle shop the other day which was advertised as a safe “jock free environment”. It’s curious that the hacker community (with it’s male-Nerd stereotypes) may actually have misogyny in common with it’s male-stereotype nemesis: Jocks.

    (re-submitting, reply seems to have gotten eaten)

  77. December 30, 2012

    Misogyny and any gender bias is based on unsound or corrupt thinking. Our self-images are important to us and should be respected by all who deal with and work with us. Even though, as Buddhism has stated and now Neurology is discovering that our self-image is an illusion. Both genders have their strengths and weaknesses and in an equal partnership, both feed off and compliment each other. I’ve been working in IT for many years and find it has been highly male dominated in the past, though I find women have greater intuitiveness and sense of fairness. The few that I’ve been associated with are brilliant and I’d be proud to work under them. Misogyny has no place in our society, it benefits nobody, least of all the misogynists. Our illusion of ourselves should be allowed to develop without naive, misguided and irrational disrespect from our colleagues. Keep up the great fight Asher!!!

  78. MrShlee #
    December 31, 2012

    I love reading some of these comments who seem to be telling asher she’s not allowed to be offended by these actions and how she should react.

    It seems we’ve found ourselves in a lose/lose situation when people are willing to shoot down somebody for willing to admit they were offended and willing to speak out about while defending the offenders as warriors of freedom of speech or some kind of unspoken majority.

    Nobody should need to defend themselves if you’ve offended them.

    Also, this isn’t the time for Misogyny linguistics fight… If somebody calls you out for being sexist. you might not hate women, but you are more than likely a giant arsehole who is actively working to discriminate and denigrate women. You really should consider that when somebody calls you out.. You might be the problem and not the internet super hero you think you are.

    • Mackenzie #
      January 9, 2013

      Mmmm don’t you love that gaslight?

  79. December 31, 2012

    Hi Asher,
    Thank you for bringing into light the issue of sexism and discrimination — something that indeed exists in the hacker community. I support your fight against those issues and think you’re on the right track. I also think it’s unfortunate that some people attempted to hack your website.

    That being said, I wish you would kindly retract your statements about me on your blog. As many have pointed out, your attacks on me have (perhaps unintentionally!) labeled me as sexist, and this has reacted against me to the point whence I’ve started receiving anonymous death threats with references to your blog post. I’ve politely attempted to ask you to clarify what you meant by your comments on me on Twitter, but you responded by telling me to “go f*ck myself” and then accused me of being a State Department stooge. You reacted thusly, and continued to insult me copiously without any provocation, even though I was being nothing but supportive of your efforts.

    I apologize again if I offended you at some point. As you note in your article, I did in fact already apologize for any past offenses made towards you months ago when they were first made, and then proceeded to write about how you founded Cryptoparty in an article published by the New Internationalist. I also worked with you on holding USAID accountable for hosting a “real name policy” Cryptoparty. Therefore, I feel the way you’ve decided to single me out is extremely unfair, especially considering that ever since I apologized for attacking you months ago, I’ve been nothing but supportive of your leadership initiative with regards to Cryptoparty.

    I at no point intended for my comments to be discriminatory, and I assure you that I, too, have faced very harsh and unfair rhetoric from my peers in the hacker community as well. I think this sort of treatment is a big problem, especially (and more so) so for women, and so congratulate you for focusing on the issue. However, I don’t believe that I deserve to be singled out; I would go so far as to say that my previous disagreements with you have been far more tame than most of the bad talk that goes around in our community, against both men and women.

    Thank you,
    NK

    • Asher Wolf #
      December 31, 2012

      I’m sorry someone has felt the need to make death threats against you. That’s unwarranted and unacceptable, and I condemn it.

      I’ve also had some pretty interesting responses to my post today, including being hacked, threatened, and doxed.

      I mentioned a number of people in my post – you were not solely mentioned. I also never stated you were a stooge.

      However – did you not have a line of contact with the State Department, as you stated on the LiberationTech List when I sought information and advice over the unwarranted and disturbing USAID involvement in a real-name policy for a Cryptoparty?

      As I stated in the first paragraph of the article, not all of it is about sexism and misogyny. It was about the events that occurred that led me to quit. Your comments played quite a large role in that. Once made on Twitter, it created a culture that undermined my involvement in Cryptoparty from there on. Your comments were made only weeks after Cryptoparty launched.

      You may have apologised – as I noted in my post – but it still impacted on my decision to quit.

      In regards to your statement:

      “I would go so far as to say that my previous disagreements with you have been far more tame than most of the bad talk that goes around in our community, against both men and women.”

      It doesn’t make it right.

      I’m not deleting anything. I’m sick to death of the sort of behavior you expressed. You don’t just get to go “errrm, sorry can we make this go away” and pretend it doesn’t have an impact.

      By the way, I note Cryptocat was presented at Cryptoparty at 29c3, despite the conversation we had where it was agreed Cryptocat would not be promoted through Cryptoparty. Well played.

      The comments are here for those who chose to peruse them.

      • December 31, 2012

        In response to your questions:

        I’m not sure I understand why you continued to work with me on so many different levels regarding Cryptoparty if you insist that I was nothing but a negative factor. Long after we had apologized to each other, you in fact gave me the password to the Cryptoparty Twitter feed and asked me to maintain it. Your behavior doesn’t make sense and I feel betrayed by the notion that you suddenly decided to publicly deride me after working with me on Cryptoparty-related issues for months without any drama.

        Frankly, I was also expecting an apology from you for your stream of unprovoked personal insults and odious language you used towards me on Twitter after publishing this post, in response to my comments of support. I’m sad to see that no apology has been made.

        Regarding State: It’s actually quite easy to contact people at State. In case you find this somehow hard to believe, you should probably be aware that the Tor Project receives a large portion of its funds from the State Department, and that the State Department in fact even hosts a large number of Tor nodes. You implied that I in fact “had State Department contracts” — why would you say this?

        Regarding Cryptocat being presented at 29c3: What’s the meaning of “Well played?” I had nothing to do with Cryptocat being presented there and I’m not sure what you’re suggesting. Also, we never agreed that Cryptocat would not be promoted through Cryptoparty — in fact, why would I be discussing such an agreement with you? Isn’t Cryptoparty leaderless in its essence? Do Cryptoparties have to obtain prior approval from you? I’m not sure I understand, perhaps an explanation would help! :) Also, I remember you explicitly saying that you wouldn’t mind tweets regarding Cryptocat on the Cryptoparty Twitter feed when you handed me control of it.

        If you have any technical concerns with Cryptocat, I think the best place to address them would be our issues tracker: https://github.com/cryptocat/cryptocat/issues/

        I wish you the best in your effort against sexism and hope you’ll succeed!

        • Asher Wolf #
          December 31, 2012

          Dear Nadim,

          Re: your statement: “I’m not sure I understand why you continued to work with me on so many different levels regarding Cryptoparty if you insist that I was nothing but a negative factor.”

          Why did I act in a negotiable manner? Fear. Fear that you’d continue to undermine and destabilize the movement and my involvement.

          Also I did not work with you “on so many different levels.” I am not aware of your attendance at *any* Cryptoparty. We had 3, maybe 4 relatively short conversations via Jabber.

          I also did NOT work with you for months on Cryptoparty. You have had very little impact on Cryptoparty, except for your criticism of me.

          I gave you the password to the cryptoparty twitter account as an attempt to put you on side so you would not continue to act as a destructive element. You are not the only individual with access to the password. I am not aware of asking you to solely maintain the twitter feed. I am also unaware of you ever posting to the twitter feed.

          I also never claimed you had a “state contract.”

          To accurately quote my tweet: “@kaepora and get your State Dept. contacts to hand you a tissue after you finish promoting Cryptocat thru Cryptoparty yet again.”

          Individual cryptoparties may be leaderless, but the central infrastructure was not. I set it up. Offering you access to it came with terms.

          I directly asked you when I offered to allow you to tweet from the Cryptoparty twitter account *NOT* to promote cryptocat through cryptoparty. It was part of the terms of giving you access to the twitter account.

          This is a bald-faced lie on your part: “Also, I remember you explicitly saying that you wouldn’t mind tweets regarding Cryptocat on the Cryptoparty Twitter feed when you handed me control of it.”

          No, you’re not going to get an apology. Your behavior is dishonest and unacceptable.

          • December 31, 2012

            I’m sorry you feel this way and that you insist on acting aggressively towards me, Asher. I stand by everything that I’ve said as honest and accurate. Good luck with your initiative! :)

            Just one note: You did indeed claim I had a State contract. I’m surprised by your denial. Here’s the tweet: https://twitter.com/Asher_Wolf/status/284851361735131136

          • Asher Wolf #
            December 31, 2012

            Nadim,

            Calling you out on a lie is not “acting aggressively.” Your attempts to persistently falsely characterize my nature are unwelcome.

          • December 31, 2012

            Ah! I read “contacts” as “contracts.” Sorry, my mistake!

          • December 31, 2012

            I’m sorry you feel that I’m lying or trying to falsely characterize your nature, Asher. That’s certainly not what I’m trying to do here. Best of luck!

          • December 31, 2012

            I should also mention that Cryptocat was never promoted through Cryptoparty’s Twitter feed :)

      • January 2, 2013

        Madam, I would just like to step in here and applaud you for stating that death-threats are unacceptable. I’ve had them myself (from a
        complete stranger who didn’t like something I wrote on a blog) and this know that they can really mess with one’s head, even if they’re just words.

        Emotions are running high here and it speaks well of you that you’re still able to step back and state that, no matter how heated the
        discussion gets, we should not be wishing each other dead.

  80. kevin #
    December 31, 2012

    lern 2 read lol

  81. December 31, 2012

    Hello,

    thanks for sharing this. Although most definitely not a hacker myself, in my spare time I am the administrator of a fairly technical mailing list of people who care about open data and discuss it in the Italian language and with reference to the Italian context. That list, too, is predominantly male, despite our best attempts to be inclusive to non-techies – which seem to have been successful.

    So here is the question: how would you recommend we go about making our online space more attractive to women? Your proposal of talking it out publicly in physical spaces is impractical – we don’t have any. Also, so far we record zero episodes of verbal abuse (not just related to gender, related to anything: it is a cozy little place), so I guess we would need some kind of outreach… any ideas?

  82. anon #
    December 31, 2012

    As an upper-middle-class white male, I have to point out that there is no difference between negative things that I experience, and negative things that anyone else experiences. Just the other day I stubbed my toe REALLY BAD, but did I blame anyone else (besides the idiot that moved my chair)? No! I took nearly full responsibility.

    I personally have never witnessed a rape at any IT event (well, except that one time, but I think he had good reason to think that she would have probably given consent, if she had been conscious), so I think you need to just face the fact that it never ever happens, and talking about it is just a way to distract people from the fact that your programming skills are not up to snuff.

    The hacker community is purely a meritocracy; people are judged by their skill in programming (which is, objectively, the only kind of “merit” that exists), and no other factors enter into the equation. Some people may dispute this, but they are objectively wrong. Here, I will write it again: the hacker community is purely a meritocracy. Note that (a) I have written this twice now, and (b) other people in positions of respect in the hacker community have said the same thing. So it would be foolish to try to argue that it’s not true.

    You should also face the fact that you left the Cryptoparty group for no good reason. After all, you were angry when you quit, therefore objectively you ragequit. And since in WoW Trade Chat “ragequit” means “quit for no good reason”, you therefore quit for no good reason.

    This is simple logic. You may disagree, but clearly that will just mean that you are incapable of grasping logic, as was already evident by the fact that you hold views that I do not share.

    It’s just the objective truth!

    • ronia #
      January 1, 2013

      The objective truth is that you witnessed a physical asault on an unconscious person without calling or providing help. In Germany this behaviour would be punishable by law. It was rape.

      Only because we don’t see rape, doesn’t mean it is not happening.

      How can women ever get merit in a community where some “objective” idiot like you walks around and deems an assault not rape, because the person is unconscious? Where such idiots think it is okay to rob a person of her innate human rights? Where women are constantly being degraded on and off stage?

      Your meritocracy is non-existing.

      • Tempura #
        January 3, 2013

        > It was rape.

        Except, that pair had a proper relationship, like being married. I stumpled also over that part, but I believe in the good in people and take the given hint as such. Not that it automaticly make such actions legit, but it shift’s the responsibility to the pair and their usual behaviour, and is as such to be accepted.

    • January 2, 2013

      Wow, an ‘anon’ for the other ‘side’, apparently.

      As a white male, I can tell you that I’ve had experiences similar (not as prolonged and not as close to home) to Asher’s in the sci-fi community, where someone levelled death-threats at me on twitter. Thank you for implying that my gender and race means I should ‘suck that up’ (as others have claimed).

      Why don’t you go and play with the other ‘anons’ who are saying hateful things about women, hmm? You’re made for each other. Hell, you probably look the same in a mirror.

    • anon #
      January 3, 2013

      (That was intended as satire; I apologize for not making it ridiculous enough to stand out obviously!)

    • eekee #
      January 3, 2013

      Oh I wish it were a meritocracy! It is hard to emphasize how much it is not. Few people see the big picture of what they are doing, for instance to determine if what they are doing is actually an improvement over an earlier, simpler, way; or trouble themselves to determine if what they are doing makes sense at all.

      In 15 years of being involved with open source, I’ve seen countless examples of enthusiastic young things getting caught up with things they barely understand while imagining they understand them completely and wholly, and that anyone contradicting their notions must be brain-damaged! These bright young hare-brains seem to make up the vast majority of the contributors in the open source community, it’s disturbing and a little frightening to watch.

  83. llort #
    December 31, 2012

    TLDR XD

  84. MM #
    December 31, 2012

    I am always fascinated at the criticism that is rolled out around “intelligence and education” by men in particular who seem to believe that there is only one way of interacting with the world. It is not a criticism about approach or competence in the role that was undertaken, and it never is. It is an attempt to discredit and undermine mostly women, who are doing something that is out of the norm.
    There is also the argument that the geek males are somehow some kind of underclass shunned by women and the general population. I always feel the need tpo highlight that if you make people feel stupid about not having the knowledge or the skill set you do then of course they want nothing to do with you.
    I have a totally different skillset to the group to which this post refers. I work with humans and speak in plain language and try to make a difference through helping people improve their communication and interaction with each other. I am pretty sure that is not something many of the people criticising Asher Wolf would be able to do. I won’t make anyone feel stupid for it because the choice of vocation is mine and yorus is your.
    Having worked in male dominated industries my entire career I have experienced bulling, harrassment, passive aggressive behaviour and open criticism. I accept it happens and I do what I can to change it because we all have a responsibility to make a difference.
    Asher Wolf I am so sad to hear the horrible attacks that have been made towards you and I hope that the people who do support you can help protect you and your family.
    To those people making the attacks I would highly recommend that you learn a little more about human interaction and communication if you want to be accepted as a human being.

  85. JT #
    December 31, 2012

    Asher: Emails telling you to stick to ‘motherhood’ are sexist. Comments describing you as a ‘mommy-type’ are sexist. The creeper card ‘headless female body’. The ‘lolcow’. Many of the comments posted here in response to your initial post. These are clearcut examples of sexism, through and through; they must be fought and stopped.

    The above list isn’t, however, exclusive to hacker or geek culture. This is the experience of everyday life for many women. Calling out a select community (and, let’s not forget, privileged community; and that privilege includes you) for behaviours that are a part of everyday life already, seems to be a bit of a red herring and avoiding the focus on how these aren’t peculiar to the subculture you describe, but are everyday issues experienced by everyday women in a lot of cultural contexts. It’s apparently a popular red herring , nonetheless, given the number of views and tweets/retweets of your post: if only we talked about all experiences of everyday sexism so frenetically.

    But given the above list is mundane in terms of the everyday experiences of women, why this frenzy? Partly, it is due to the fact that you are trying to collapse the above real, appalling experiences of sexism into an overall narrative of entrenched sexism existing in the events / spaces you describe. This I don’t think you quite pull off proving. I wish you’d just focussed on the above list.

    Outside of the above list, you infer the Cryptoparty culture is inherently sexist, but the inferences you draw are long bows.

    Nadim Kobeissi’s tweet—which, incidentally, is the only non-anecdtoal part of your critique–can be interpreted to be sexist. Obviously it is very loaded to imply a woman can’t be ‘level-headed’. But as an isolated text it is not strong evidence. If there was a pattern of Kobeissi making such asides about women, I would be much more assured that his behaviour is sexist. There is none. As a one-off tweet, with no contextual evidence, it’s not strong evidence.

    I do not feel that people failing to accept your criticisms of various aspects of Cryptoparty is evidence of sexism; even when you say people ‘talked down to you’ or told you to ‘quit’ it is a leap to assume that was because of your gender. It may have been in some cases. It may even have been in all cases. But it also may be possible that you are reading everyone’s behaviours only within the context of having experienced some instances of sexism. It is also possible that some criticism of your ideas was deserved.

    I do not feel that Jacob Appelbaum’s response to you is in any way sexist. It may be a lot of things, including arrogant, but the quote you cite is not sexist. However, I do feel your response to it is disingenuously trying to construct Appelbaum’s response as sexist; as is your sarcastic aside implying that his ‘very busy’ can’t possibly be at the level of yours. You’ve also kept this position up with him in the comments. Disappointing.

    I do not feel that the fact you have allegedly been scammed out of $700 is sexist. It’s completely unethical, and if unresolved, it is criminal. But there’s no reason why these circumstances are a result of your gender. (If people want to say women are more prone to such scams, I would take issue.)

    There is no evidence to assume the fact that your submission to present was excluded from the conference is sexist (although a sexually inclusive conference would have ensured a balance of gendered speakers); nor is the ‘Sydney-based male’ who allowed you to write most of the submission on his behalf sexist because of that (women can be just as freeloading).

    I don’t believe there’s any evidence that your site was hacked due to sexism. I am sure you and others will disagree with me on that. But you’ve made sure that’s the only position people can assume.

    You refer to ‘a group of guys who had treated me like crap, who put me down, talked down to me, criticized and belittled me for months’. I’m genuinely sad and sorry that this happened to you. But the fact that these perpetuators were men does not automatically prove you are a victim of gender discrimination. I think we need to be careful that in any male-dominated environment, we don’t automatically undermine the seriousness of sexism by claiming any negativity directed towards women can only be understood as sexism. Women can talk down, criticise and belittle, too. Men can also do it to each other. Yes, who historically has power and who doesn’t makes it more loaded when men criticise women, but it does not right that wrong to automatically and only read all male behaviour as worst-case scenario. You also refer to them as a ‘group of guys’. It is essentialist to assume that all their motives and behaviours are the same.

    I find this statement to be the most problematic in your post: ‘I didn’t create Cryptoparty just so a bunch of privileged white boys…’. I am assuming you are white, and yet you acknowledge and emphasise only the whiteness of men. You also aren’t acknowledging your own privilege in this statement, and I believe you do have privilege, and much of it. You are deliberately constructing power and its absence, here, in your semantic favour.

    I feel as if readers are positioned to respond to your post in a George W. kind of way: you’re either with her (and on every point), or with the misogynists. I’m with you in spirit, but not on the details. You had details you could have used to fix this issue; instead these details have been absorbed into an overall conspiracy theory where any negative treatment you have received can only be a consequence of a gender plot. When people call you out on this, you tell them to read the first paragraph, as if douchebaggery gives you an out. It doesn’t. You know full well that your overall narrative is being run with and promoted as a treatise on misogyny and sexism. Appelbaum’ and Kobeissi are now read only within that prism, and that is unfair on facts. You are wrong not to apologise to them. A significant aspect of your position is that you are tired of the abuse you have received; and yet, by your own admission you have responded abusively to others who disagree with you. You get away with this by framing yourself as a woman standing up to the patriarchy; anyone who is/was abusive back is part of an overall pattern of sexism. You have created a binary that is just as nasty as the one you are challenging.

    I am a very proud feminist, but one who does worry that misogyny is a term which is becoming overused. I also think misandry is a term being underused. I am not accusing you of this, but a lot of the responses to your posts are ricocheting between these extremes, which are equally bad. It is good to have female voices discussing experiences of sexism in male-dominated cultures: apologies, but I wish you’d done it better. I’m not convinced in the absoluteness of the experience as you represent it, but you have now ensured a lot of people will only understand it in those terms. I think you’ve missed an opportunity to frame it more meaningfully.

  86. January 1, 2013

    One additional data point – I was told yesterday before leaving the 29c3 that “the Headless Female ‘Creeper Card’ image” was created by a woman from the 4chan-like community of Germany. Apparently it was specifically created to troll people.

    • January 2, 2013

      Dude, unless you’ve seen proof that’s not a data-point, that’s a rumor I’m afraid.

      I can see that emotions are running high over this issue, but given that 29c3 was predominately male attended, so statistically it was probably a guy.

      Unless you’ve got some kind of proof, then this is most likely one of those ‘Obama is a Muslim’ rumors that springs up around contentious issues.

      • January 2, 2013

        The person that told me knows the person directly. My source told me the name of the person and the group name that I’ve since forgotten. I feel comfortable with my data point.

        If we apply the standard you suggest, we have little to no evidence for either gender choice. A statistical representation of jerks or trolls does not perfectly map to the statistical representations of gender.

    • Jubal #
      January 3, 2013

      That’s not really relevant. What was the response from the organization committee?

      • January 3, 2013

        What isn’t relevant? My data point isn’t out of thin air – if you’re going to dismiss it, I’d love to see something even more concrete to replace it.

        The CCC had an anti-discrimination policy on the main 29c3 website. It seems quite clear to me that the CCC is intended to be a safe space.

    • ronia #
      January 3, 2013

      This person has since come forward with a blog post [1] where she showed an utter lack of reflection and understanding stating that because of her gender and her sexual orientation she couldn’t possibly have done something wrong, ignoring completely context and social environment as well as her privilege markers that she states repeatedly without even explaining why.

      As this comment thread shows: Being a woman* or bi or gay or whatever does not save you from being misogynist or reproducing misogyny for the sake of staying on the good side of the boys club.

      [1] http://mirromaru.tumblr.com/post/39382307717/oh-teh-drama-or-why-i-stickered-a-naked-headless

      • StarryNight #
        January 3, 2013

        +1.

        In fact, if *anyone* is trying to play the “I have a vagina, I deserve special treatment” card, it’s the woman who did the stickering, who clearly believes that her anatomy means that she cannot possibly engage in misogyny. Asher is not trying to play any such card.

      • Benis #
        January 3, 2013

        I think I will continue making pictures of genitals just because I know you hate it.

    • StarryNight #
      January 3, 2013

      That just shows that women are as capable of tasteless, tactless misogyny as men are.

  87. j #
    January 1, 2013

    This is why cryptography may never be useful for circumvention of censorship or oppression. I’m not a hacker. It takes me at least a day just to install gnu/linux, but I still care. I use open source and free software because I believe in what it’s about. I care about cryptography and privacy tools because I’m an activist and social justice type. The way the United States is going now, the way the government reacted to OWS, NDAA, SOPA, PIPA, and all that jazz makes me believe that privacy tools and encryption will be crucial to progressive activists being able to function.

    I realize that my life would be easier if I just buckle down and accept the government as my master and overlord, but I’m just not like that. I want to be safe from government and corporate eyes on my communication. That is why I learn about encryption and such, I try the latest tools, keep up with news, try to be accepted at events and so on.

    Unfortunately, I am beginning to see that cryptography will never be useful to me and it’s because of the very people who are telling me how important it is. People who should be using cryptography/privacy tools are precisely the people who aren’t using them. The reason I see for this is a elitist, closed group around cryptographic/privacy (C/P) tools which prevents the tools from becoming refined and widely useable. C/P protects us the most when it is widespread and ubiquitous, because there is a closed group around C/P it can never be widespread and will not be as effective.

    Only a small percentage of people use cryptographic tools. I’m usually around people who genuinely need to have their hard drive encrypted to protect their clients and their organizing projects. Unions really need to be using encrypted communication for example, activists too. However, if these people wanted to begin using C/P tool they would not be able to. I want to and I’m not able to. I can install gnu/linux from a USB drive but I couldn’t figure out how to get a certain privacy distro working. Cryptopunks know this is a problem. At HOPE9 there was a talk on the challenges of getting C/P tools out in the mainstream; the problem identified were the usability and the challenge of getting C/P tools working even for experts and hackers. The speaker was starting a new C/P project to make a tool that anybody can use. I wanted to share my experiences as a confused but enthusiastic end-user but unfortunately the group was only open to devs.

    People are prevented from using privacy tools because they are completely user unfriendly and very difficult to get working. This would not be a problem but the developers are not taking steps to make them easier or to entice more people to learn these tools. Cryptopunk’s attitude is part of the problem. C/P are very closed and rigid groups where the status quo is desperately protected and outgroup members or those who have trouble learning are ostracized. This wouldn’t be so bad if C/P was practically very important. It is like having a political party in a democracy where membership is so uninclusive.

    Women need to be using C/P tools, dumb non-hackers like myself need to be using C/P tools, old people need to be using C/P tools. This is the goal yes? How will the goal be met when people are expressing views like that insulting and hostile atmospheres in such groups encourage a more widespread adoption of C/P tools? If I were to go to a cryptoparty and people are closed off to outsiders and want me to ‘prove’ myself somehow I’m not going to bother, I’m going to go hang out with someone who is excited to have me around.

    It is the lack of excitement for new people and the lack of respect for a wide variety of non-sitting-at-a-computer skills that prevents new people from coming into groups and using C/P tools. The tools don’t get improved or made user friendly and because there isn’t enough fresh blood entering the groups I unless the atmosphere changes there won’t be. C/P enthusiasts suffer from groupthink and a lack of fresh ideas like any group with very high solidarity and specialized skills with limited membership options.

    This is bad because if only a small percentage of people are using C/P tools they are not effective, in fact, they become a signal and can burn the people who use it. This is why this exclusive attitude needs to change in the C/P groups. It is because by excluding people and hurting peoples feeling you are decreasing the efficacy of your own tools. We need people like my mother and defense attorneys or prosecuters and high school girls and people completely different than you and me, we need everyone to be using C/P tools so that the popular perception is that crypto is a part of common everyday safety. Currently, most people outside of the hacker world view encrypted folders as *only* used for child pornography and bitcoin *only* used to buy drugs.

    It will stay like that until C/P tools become user friends, and that can only happy if we allow outsiders and non-hackers, and even hackers who don’t look like us to join in our work. If anyone gives a fuck about C/P as something that is a human right and crucial in our modern world that means we have to get serious
    about getting everyone involved in C/P without judgement and restriction. We are behaving as if cryptography and privacy is no more than a hobby open to those who are good enough.

  88. Mynnia #
    January 1, 2013

    I just had a scary thought coming back from some biology books to read this…

    1. Cryptography and measures for self-protection are increasingly more important
    2. The less another individual is protecting themselves compared to you, the easier you can spy and control it.
    3. Open anti-woman and discouraging statements are getting increasingly common in certain technical circles that should, as you stated, inform others and not cocoon.

    Now if biology has taught me something then that is that human behaviour more often than not has a good reason, even if it’s icky and amoral. Also, those are not conscious decisions people make. (for better understanding: it’s like people don’t go and say “oh I’ll recombine my genes with someone else today” or something, they go having sexual fun.)

    I think that we are witnessing the beginning of a systematic repression and that it serves to hinder girls and women from that kind of self-protection. This would make them easier to control socially. This is why safe-space crypto parties and all-female crypto parties would indeed be a good idea. Not for the exclusion, for the self-protection denied by other sources.

  89. britn3y009 #
    January 1, 2013

    Dear Asher,

    I’m a fan, but I have a few things to say and request from you, please don’t take this personal, this is just my personal opinion.

    Attacking a small group of people, that perhaps did not get along or see eye-to-eye with you and directly/indirectly label them as being sexists is straight up wrong.

    At first I was simpathetic, but after seeing all the facts surfacing via the comments it looks like you were not upfront about a lot of things. Honestly, from where I stand, it looks like you were pissed and wanted to get back at them and take down everyone with you. These actions don’t reflect someone who truly cares about the community and I know deep inside you do.

    Here is the thing, what I expected from you is to instead, try to drive change, recruit those who can help you spread it, have conversations about disagreements, come to terms, write constructive blog post and ask for opinions, etc. What really makes me sad is that it doesn’t even look like you made any attempts at talking to the people you highlighted on your blog post, instead you pretended everything was cool and then you dropped the bomb on them. Saying that you were not comfortable about talking to them is no excuse hun because posting this on the internet says the opposite. Desecrating anyone’s image is not a good way to start a positive and constructive dialogue.

    As a fan and developer I hope you write a new article with all the facts, less drama and a more constructive path. I respect you for starting Cryptoparty. It takes a lot of heart and vision to get something going from the ground up. No one will be able to take that away from you, ever.

    Anyway, that’s all.

    - A fan.

  90. January 1, 2013

    The amount of time you have put into leading the CryptoParty community is too low / short. I have been leading communities for over 5 years, and all new communities are chaotic in the beginning to say the least, especially on the Internet. (The first 6 months, are usually the toughest.)

    This is not because you are female, I couldn’t care less which gender a person has if they have the right skill set to: lead, teach, hack, or whatever it is they do and if they don’t know how to do it, they learn, sometimes “ad-hoc”, i.e. over the years where this, which seems like your first big project, was a disaster in dealing with chauvinists.

    It took me a long time go weed out all the bad guys in the community I lead, which pretty much runs itself now because it’s full of nice people, often making jokes about everything, but they know there’s a limit, because there are defined community rules, which are not just defined, they are enforced. Personal insults between members in the community, was a big problem in the beginning, but as they were permanently removed, just like other conferences do with charlatans, the problem was effectively resolved.

    Now I do have some concerns over your overall way of generalising all hackers, which I find quite rude:
    Quote: “I’m not suggesting we send the global hacker community off to a H.R. anti-discrimination/anti-harassment training session (though it probably wouldn’t hurt.)”

    Response:
    InterN0T is one of the few communities out there, that doesn’t tolerate discrimination or harassment. We are known for being unlike any other community out there, that’s often full of script kiddies and angry (or idiotic) hats. Of course, there are other friendly communities out there, InterN0T is not the only one, but you cannot judge the entire hacker community, simply because you had a bad experience with 0.01% or lower, of the overall hacker community.

    We do have girls in our community, even though most doesn’t say if they are, to avoid being spammed by guys about how they look, etc. which is fine by me if they ask so, as it’s not sexism, it’s simply how the male brain is wired. (Plus they often ask the other members too or make jokes about them, or themselves.) Anyway, there is a line, and that is when it turns into misogyny. One of the former and additional community leaders who I put in charge, is female and very capable of leading, even without me supervising. (In fact she listened more than any of the other community leaders did, about the functional procedures is, etc.)

    So I valued her, and I still do even though she is busy in university at the moment, and doesn’t have much time for hacking or leading the community, even though her spot is ready. She studied cryptography, several years ago, and was the first in the community, to post the longest and most comprehensive thread about the basics of crypto, and most of the members knew she was a girl, yet none said she was wrong, because she wasn’t. (The only difference is, I was also supervising the community and would be swift to act in case of any trouble.)

    This is a statement, that females can know and lead, just as well as men. Because my former community leader, was and is great, even though I know a lot more (which is a fact, as I am also her mentor, so she can become just as great, or even greater than me), as I have 10 over years of experience with hacking, where some of that is professional.

    I have known a few female hackers, but all of them, were able to deal with the misogyny and find communities, where they would fit in, and be treated just as nice, as any other male. I have however, also known power-mad females in a few communities, which actually hated males, including me :-) Most of these, knew nothing about nothing, had no ambition, and no purpose. Obviously you are different, as you worked up high in the cryptoparty community, where these examples I just mentioned, were simply given power with the use of flattery.
    (The same kind of flattery used by some females in some hacker / script kiddie communities, to gain administrative access, and completely destroy them intentionally. No kidding, I saw it with my own eyes, and I was mad to see that happen. It was however, dealt with (shortly after they began to post social security numbers of random people) as that community was a close “friend”. The kind of destruction, was deleting everything and defacing the website, in case you wonder. In other words, it was social engineering.)

    Conclusion:
    You can’t possibly know the hacker community, when you have only been a part of it, for such a short time as it seems from this post you have made. Leading a community, is a big job, especially in the beginning.
    You can’t expect to be treated as the girls do here as well, in case you’re e.g. in Sydney. (The culture I’ve seen here so far, is a joke. I’ve lived in several countries, and I didn’t think it would be anything like this. I have never been treated as rude by (caucasian) girls before, as I have been here as a (caucasian) male, to the point of thinking the entire country’s female population are somewhat insane. I’ve met girls from all around the world, and the worst I’ve met was here.)

    Suggestions:
    A) Get back on the horse and continue to fight the misogyny in CryptoParty.
    B) Start a new project, define everything before you begin. (i.e. rules, what kind of people you want, core principles, etc.)
    C) Quit like everyone else do without trying again, when something fails. (This is e.g. not an option for me, and it’s not because I’m a male, it’s because I’m the founder of a community, I can’t possibly quit when I am still alive. I have had dozens of attacks, threats, hater groups, etc., but in the end, the community was still alive and going just as it should.)

    When it seems like there is no solution to a problem, it’s time to be creative and think of all possible solutions, and possibly link some of them together to form the first solution. As you should always have a backup plan, or several, in case you are planning a major overhaul of a community. Keep in mind as well, that it takes _time_ to change anything in a community, they do not change overnight. Especially what you are experiencing, even if you ban all sexists, etc. New will come, some will go, but eventually, the message will be heard. It’s about sending a message, in the friendliest way possible, if possible.

    Best regards,
    MaXe

    • xKx #
      January 2, 2013

      This is a good post, and as usual, the community responds so predictably that I could have written all the nonsense in the comments ahead of time. The idea that the response you have provoked is actually about your lack of tech skill would hold some water if it wasn’t so reminiscent of any other time a woman has spoken out about sexism in a community. From the suffragettes to the recent shitstorm in the gaming community about Anita Sarkeesian (of Feminist Frequency), and that chuck of Assange/#Wikileaks community that thinks all his woes are due to a couple of filthy lying sluts and the #OWS movement.

      As you undoubtedly already know, suffragettes were similarly told their lack of voting rights wasn’t about them being women. Of course, that is precisely what it was about. This is why “humanism” doesn’t quite work. You’ve first got to be counted as fully human before humanism is meaningful (and this is probably no more explicitly evident in the ever unfolding history of Australian racism).

      Assuming the community is about more than being a macho pissing contest, the role you have tried to play in bridging between tech skills and citizens is so important, and it is a really big problem for the community if that isn’t recognised as a necessary contribution. I think your performance on Insight demonstrates the gap that you do such a good job bridging (vs rabite, who, gods love him, nonetheless will appear as little more than an asshole to most).

      Take care, take time for yourself and your child.

    • Mackenzie #
      January 9, 2013

      You know how I know that you’re not as enlightened as you think?

      You keep referring to grown women as “girls” as though we’re all a bunch of children. You’re a big man and we’re just widdle girls.

      You want to know what having been around the hacker community for not “such a short time” (I’ve been to 3 Hackers On Planet Earths, so that gives you an idea how many years its been) tells me? She’s right. A lot of men don’t think so, because they all think they’re respectful toward women, even when they’re wrong about that. Maybe Intern0t really is as non-sexist as you say. If so, congrats, but those little niche communities where being a douchebag who thinks he’s entitled to everything about a woman are rare. They are few and far between.

  91. Joe Beenthere #
    January 2, 2013

    (This is an opinion post, so freedom of speech yada yada.)

    India’s going through a period of great upheaval after reports of horrible sex crimes have been coming out daily and the Govt is doing nothing – meanwhile, a group of women-only hackers recently completed a Hackathon under Random Hacks of Kindness, which produced among other things, an open source mobile app called Bachchao, for personal security of women.

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/Women-crack-code-at-this-hackathon/articleshow/17593340.cms

    http://gwob.org/bachchao-a-mobile-call-for-help/

    Why didn’t the men do this before?

    For those who really, actually believe that women are inferior in maths and computing, you have been kept in the dark, as their very name suggests, duing the cold war too: http://www.topsecretrosies.com

    It’s not about reproductive organs.

    Men have an advantage with testosterone and the resulting ambition, aggressiveness and obsession with reaching the goal.
    Women have an advantage with a fluider mind and ability to think clearer and laterally.

    Isn’t is well known that both hormones are present in both sexes?

    Therefore, isnt it better to learn from each other’s strengths?

    If hackers be truly clear thinks, then for them, gender is merely a matter of arrangement of organic molecules.
    If they don’t believe that, they’re not even scientific, forget awesome – then “hacker” is just another frat-boy / redneck meme, definitely not worthy of respect.

    You might as well call yourself Yo-Mamma-So-Cool ‘s

    To actually prove that women don’t join opensource chiefly because they are inferior, you have to run at least a few experiments in which the conditions for women to integrate properly must be present, and then the women must fail.

    Unfortunately, none of the existing FOSS or hacker projects has declared to run any such experiment – not even week-long – because all of you lack the basic self-control needed to accomodate women even for an experiment.

    That’s the real reason no integration works – men don’t have self-control to behave decently over extended periods of time (over days / weeks)

    FWIW, I’m a straight male with a girlfriend and she’s happy with me (everywhere…)

  92. Hury #
    January 2, 2013

    While I agree with most of your sentiment, if you read the other side of the story, especially that the nude female comes from -another- female your text shows that you have deeper issues that you project on others

    • StarryNight #
      January 3, 2013

      The headless torso was made by a woman, proving only that women are as capable of being dorks as men are. How do you manage to define “getting upset that someone made a headless female torso picture to lampoon something that women have tried to use (rightly or wrongly) to combat sexism” as “projection”? If anything, the woman who makes such an image betrays other women and “Uncle Toms” to sexist men, which feels worse than if a man had made the image.

    • Mackenzie #
      January 9, 2013

      Are you saying women can’t have internalized misogyny? And how does that work? Last I checked, women weren’t socialized on a different planet from man and then released into the world as adults.

  93. noname #
    January 3, 2013

    I stopped reading after: “It doesn’t apply to all of you, but a number of you engage in it and many of you are bystanders.” (2nd paragraph).

    If your idea is that we should be equal, have the same rights, etc., why do you make the distinction between “you” (i.e. men) and “us” (i.e. women) ?

    From that phrasing, I know your ideas, I know you’re angry at men (not that it’s without reasons, I can understand that, from the behavior of all of US (females included)). And I know that you’re not gonna raise the debate.

    My advice would be to not only start phrasing things like “It doesn’t apply to all of us, but a number of us engage in it and many of us are bystanders”; but also to start THINKING that way.

    Afterall, we’re all humans, and excepted for the hormones, we’re quite identical (or more exactly, not MORE different from each other than men among men).

    Needless to say, I’m not your enemy, and I hope you won’t consider me as one (so this comment won’t be wasted time).

  94. January 3, 2013

    Asher Wolf:

    You have raised an important issue that absolutely needs to be addressed: women’s rights and the continuing fight for equal rights for women – in the hacker community and in the world.
    The misogyny and sexism in the hacker community is widely accepted and repulsive. Perhaps the most noticeably egregious serial offenders are many of the people in the Anonymous “collective”, who routinely call people they don’t like “faggot” and such. As much as the greater part of their work deserves to be admired and they absolutely deserve to be defended when they are attacked by agents of the capitalist state – and we do defend them and will continue to do so, despite their sexist and antigay language and attitudes – their frequent, blatant use of such repulsive derogatory language makes us ill. Anonymous needs to do some long-needed housecleaning – they’ll be much stronger as an organization when they do, and they’ll get much more widespread support from politically conscious workers all over the world when
    they do. Those among their group who use such language to degrade people because of their gender or sexuality would not be allowed to join our organization, because as Marxists, our movement stands for full equality for women, and for equal rights for everyone no matter what their sexuality may be. In the modern Trotskyist movement, anyone who violates those principles – which every member of our organization, when they join, pledges to uphold to the death if necessary – would be first asked to mend their ways immediately; if they continued to not adhere to the principles they agreed to when they joined our party, they would be asked to leave. Our organization’s membership would hold a hearing for these accused members during which they could attempt to defend their behavior; then we would vote on whether or not they should be allowed to remain in our group as members. That is how a Trotskyist vanguard party works: all members are required to uphold the publicly, openly proclaimed and published principles of our party: if they decide that they would rather not do that then they are shown the door. We will not allow racist or sexist people to be members of our organization, period!
    The “hacker community” espouses no such political program. It accepts people from all walks of life into it, no questions asked, except for how skilled you are as a hacker. As this very discussion shows, there are people in this community who deny that women’s oppression even exists at all! And since this community is not bound to abide by an agreed-upon code of conduct, these misogynists and sexists thrive among you, and your movement inadvertently seems to be providing a “safe haven” for sexist bigots.

    [This post is far too long, but here's the windup, finally:]

    So, Asher: if you want to build a Cryptoparty community that stands for equal rights for everyone and which is dedicated to fighting women’s oppression, do it! The good news is that it appears that there is significant sentiment among the men and women engaged in this discussion who might be interested in
    doing just that. Go for it! We will support you 100%.
    And we will also support you in your efforts to keep your movement free from the organizations of the US government that seek to infiltrate it, like long-time CIA front the “United States Agency for International Development” (USAID) and the fucking U.S. State Department! Good for you, Asher, for calling out those people who are bringing that scum around! And why this discussion seems to have just flowed around THOSE significant issues raises some very interesting questions as well, doesn’t it?

    In solidarity,

    Independent Workers Party of Chicago
    [email protected]
    iwpchi.wordpress.com

  95. eekee #
    January 3, 2013

    The crypto scene always leaves me with the feeling that the people involved are much more emotionally-driven than they believe they are. What I do is be careful what I put on Facebook, to be sure, but I don’t bother with actual crypto. It’s sometimes a little bit disturbing to see the connections some sites make about me and sometimes I do feel I should be a bit more careful, but overall I think the chance of information being used against me is very small.

  96. eekee #
    January 3, 2013

    By the way, I don’t know if you’ve changed the style in response to comments or if Opera is not rendering the full style, but I’m finding it very readable in the simple black and white sans-serif that I see and if you changed the style I wanted to thank you. My eyesight is bad enough that a few websites are a problem, but not so many that it’s worth installing a plugin (and praying that it will be maintained) or in Opera’s case fussing about with user style sheets.

    On the flip side, I’ve had to post every comment twice because I take the time to read and think before I post. ;}

  97. Bec #
    January 3, 2013

    Asher I think you have a very polarising personality. People either love you or hate you and when the people of the community you speak of chose to hate you they unfortunately picked up on the aspects of yourself that you are the most vocal about (your womanhood, your motherhood etc) to use as ammmunition and things descended into sexism and mysoginy. I am not defending the clearly juvenile actions of arseholes. I am saying however, that I don’t appreciate you being a martyr for feminists/females in IT because you end up injecting a lot of hate that the rest of us have to deal with. A vast majority of your tweets, posts and actions are negative and aggressive in nature and this isn’t helpful. You constantly get people’s back up for a lot of things. Angry writing has not helped the feminist movement at all in recent times and we continually alienate people. The men who see through the angry writing to the underlying assessment of society are frequently called ‘white knights’ by the rest of the ‘while male’ community, so we don’t make it easy for anyone to agree with us or support us.

  98. Kim #
    January 3, 2013

    It’s a shit sandwich, really, isn’t it? On one hand, you have talents and ideas, and you want to put them to good use. One the other hand, you have the arseholes who will take your talents and ideas, then fuck you over; and you have the sheep who will follow whoever is the perceived strongest.

    I get the sense that in a way you feel regret over having to quit Cryptoparty. The thing to remember is that from the situation you’ve described here, you leaving (in whatever way you saw fit) was the inevitable sane option. You didn’t have any backup. You cannot change situations that have snowballed like this on your own. Without the numbers behind you, it was just going to degenerate further.

    Sometimes the sanest and best thing to do in a bad situation is to get out. Save your psyche a pointless bashing, and take a holiday. Then put the talents and ideas you have into other projects and this time, ensure you have control. Be a complete fascist. Check everyone’s resume down to the hospital they were born in before you let them in on your project. Hold the reins as tight as you want to.

    Your idea, your right to run it. Fuck anyone else’s concept on ‘how you should’. If they think they can do better, they’re free to go right ahead, but with their own ideas. (Which they’re unlikely to have. People with ideas are rare. You’re one of them. That’s a good 30% of the reason for their hate. You have the talent that they want.)

    This to me is not about gender, except that it served as an easy rallying point for the arseholes to get the sheep behind them. Because arseholes isolate those with differences as a way to gain power. Gender is an obvious difference. So is race. Sexuality. Age. Education attainment. Hairstyle. This was a power play and it’s been successful because sheep are stupid. The end result is that Cryptoparty has lost your talents, and the arseholes will keep a policy of divide and conquer, and Cryptoparty may or may not continue to run because the arseholes are not interested in the idea, they’re interested in feeding their egos. If it does run, it will be because of people who keep their heads right the way down and work their guts out on it and are content to remain anonymous. As the founder, you were never going to have that option.

    I am sorry for the pain you’ve experienced through this. I have been there. I went to a psychologist because of it, and that’s not a bad option, by the way. Take all that you’ve learned from the experience, and take it with you into your next successful venture. Surround yourself with good people, and don’t let the bad ones in.

    Best of luck.

  99. January 4, 2013

    Thank you for sharing your story. When men are threatened they say cowardly, disrespectful, offensive things (yes, yes, I’m sure women do to but going back to my point).

    I used to be in hardware and networks as an admin but am now a developer. The worst case I had of this soft of behavior was working on a job with an older guy where we would have to switch out network equipment and redo cabling in the back of several Apple stores for two weeks. On our first night working together, I talk with him about the game plan because I alway like to plan out the scope and then take it from there. He seemed to be listening…until it was his turn. He then told me he would be doing all the cabling and that I could stand there until the automatic timer for the lights turned off which at that time I could walk down to the end of the hallway and turn them back on.

    WTF?

    At first I was confused and surprised until I thought about why he would say that. He thought he was a hot shot. He figured he had years of experience on me and that I wouldn’t be a helpful partner on this project. As I thought about those, I realized they were completely baseless assumptions because I was actually quite awesome, competent and experienced. In a moment of brilliance, I calmly replied we could do that for 30 minutes and then we would switch, making it his job to stand there and walk down to the end and activate the lights. LOL! After that, we settled in to work together and slowly, everything became fine. We were joking and talking that night and wrapped up in a few hours. Each night after was fine and months later, I invited him to a dinner at a pub I had for a bunch of geeky guy friends (in Minneapolis, I didn’t have any girl geek friends but now in San Francisco I have many!).

    Sometimes you can nip this sort of stuff in the butt. Other times, especially when it is being done by a group in a systematic and institutionalized manner (even within a fairly new tech startup, conference or group) it can be nearly impossible to turn the tides alone and everything you’ve described plus all the stress, lost sleep and misplaced guilt can manifest.

    I have compassion for the pain you must have felt being from a less technical background than myself and taking on this project. It sucks that some people in the world don’t appreciate and take advantage of others optimism and hard work.

    Please don’t be mad at all hackers. Only some are like that. Ok, maybe most. Well, there are two kinds of assholes — accidental and malicious. Your interactions sound malicious and that totally sucks.

    Thank you for sharing this story with all of us.

    I went to DEFCON 20 (2012) and almost cancelled going for fear I would be made to feel uncomfortable, unwanted and unsafe. Thankfully that didn’t happen and I met a bunch of people (mostly guys) who were awesome, friendly and helpful. There were a few drunks, egomanics socially clueless guys but I navigated past them or directly told them to leave me alone. I’m looking forward to going back next year.

    We need to stand up for ourselves in the moment. We need to share our experiences. We need to get help and support from others.

  100. tempest #
    January 5, 2013

    there is no reason to not be offended by behavior that is considered subpar at a keg party in a fraternity. i thought the red cards were a funny but pointless response to behavior that hasn’t been addressed well. they reminded me of one of the reasons i avoid hacker cons in general. the cute mockery image you posted will offend and was meant to offend anyone who is bothered by sexist and disrespectful behavior at cons.

    i have always hated this behavior. it has no place in a nation that supposedly “explore[s],” “seeks knowledge” and exists “without skin color, without nationality, without religious bias.” it is just counter-productive anti-social bullshit that any responsible person should be able to acknowledge as such. if they can’t then they do not belong.

    it is a shitty position for you to be in since you are both present and speaking out about it. but try not to let the people who disagree with you on this topic bother you. they will lose over time and make themselves look stupid in the process. more and more of the new blood will not feel the same as the defensive egotistical creeps and the bystanders who are too timid to make any noise for whatever reasons will feel more comfortable doing so as more and more people like yourself make your voice heard.

    stay strong. fuck with the program.

  101. Jacson Querubin #
    January 5, 2013

    Congrats to bring this up, we need to end these sort of behavior.

    It’s good to hacker community discuss this and become better community.

  102. Dagmar d'Surreal #
    January 6, 2013

    “Last infosec conference I went to – there was six females and over 1000 males in attendance. My female friend roped me into pretending I was her lesbian lover, simply to get a guy to let-the-fuck-go of her hand.”

    You know what works with remarkable effectiveness when someone who shouldn’t even be touching you is say, clinging to your hand like it’s their long lost precious? First, extend all the fingers of the other hand, until the hand is in a rigid, fully-open position. Next, carefully examine the hand to ensure that all fragile and/or pointy jewelry is on the other side side, and then with a brisk and rapid motion, *slap that dimwit upside his stupid head*.

    This technique works at many more locations than just hacker conventions. Public parks, shopping malls, pubs, bars, and nightclubs, libraries… pretty much everywhere that isn’t a judo dojo. The resounding smacking noise will even alert other males in the vicinity to the fact that there is douchbaggery present and the odds that anyone’s going to be upset about behavioural correction techniques being deployed on a masher is astonishingly low-to-nonexistant.

    • StarryNight #
      January 6, 2013

      So let me get this straight: physical violence against a harasser is ok, but–according to others in these comments–handing them a creeper card is aggressive behaviour and hence not ok?

      I think that certain people need to look in a dictionary to what “aggressive” actually means.

  103. January 7, 2013

    Dear AsherWolf,

    thank you very much for lighting this issue up – Your Post helped me understand how serious this topic actually is. On a Personal Note, being a humanities guy and thus constantly belittled by techie wankers as somehow inferior or not a real Hacker, Not a real man and shit like that, I experienced quite a deal of the douchebaggery, too.

    I completely agree with your conclusion concerning the attention and counter-effort these issues deserve!

    All This “we’re hackers, so we’re post-gender” crap is a pile of pre-pubertary “my Argument Sounds more sophisticated than yours” wankery. If it didn’t hurt people, it might be comical in some pathetic Kind of way.

    Take care! <3

    PS: PLZ don't mind all of the caps, I got German Android to deal with here. ;)

  104. kshade #
    January 8, 2013

    Don’t just talk about anti-harassment policies. What really need to be done is bringing down the hammer on those who don’t adhere to it. Kick ‘em out of cons and other places, virtual or real, if they are a problem. They don’t deserve to be there if they can’t follow basic guidelines like “don’t touch people who don’t want to be touched” or “leave people who don’t want anything to do with you alone”. If that’s not happening those policies are just toothless (albeit less silly) than the “creeper cards”.

  105. January 9, 2013

    Fuck em, though. Theyre assholes, and im sure you can imagine why; this is a tough environment and the more clued up you are, the greater ridicule you will face from your contemporaries, and this extends over almost all aspects of your interaction with said contemporaries. I mean these guys are all miserable fucks in their own way, i mean we are all enduring various forms of isolation, its an intrinsic feature of our current socio economic system, as im sure i dont have to tell you. So fuck em, dont waste your time. I understand its important to bing these issues to light, but ya dont have to tell on them, tell it to them, and continue persevering towards a better world for our children in which we will have more supportive environments in which it will become increasingly harder to develop into a discriminative prick.

    ;)

  106. January 9, 2013


    http://youtu.be/TWrlbRdJsSE
    :P

  107. January 9, 2013

    boobies are funny.

  108. Mackenzie #
    January 9, 2013

    Good on you for placing your own emotional well-being above the “but I need my hand held to learn how to be a decent human being!” asshats.

    The Hacker’s Manifesto was BS when it was written, and it’s BS now. Maybe by the time our granddaughters are hacking, it’ll come true.

  109. ZuKorrekt #
    January 9, 2013

    Die Genderdiskussion ist behindert und erzeugt überhaupt erst die Probleme die sie lösen soll. Bevor ich mich mit Gender befassen durfte war ich eher pro Feminismus, diese Zeiten sind vorbei! Es gibt nichts schlimmeres, für beide Geschlechter!

  110. siiiiiiiigh #
    January 9, 2013

    Revelation time! It’s not the contents of your pants, it’s what’s missing between your ears. Your just a crazy person. Deal with your PERSONAL issues first. It was to be the Cryptoparty not the Asher show.

    Please stop starting sentences with “and”… ffs.

  111. January 10, 2013

    Sexism / misogyny / etc. have no place in conferences and workplaces. None.

    None of that explains why girls make up ~0-5% of any given programming class from middle school on up.

  112. Kiwano #
    January 10, 2013

    I was just reading about how most informants, provocateurs, and saboteurs that the state has infiltrate civil society and activist groups, well they tend to be arrogant misogynist asshats. It also suggested that in order to preserve the integrity of these movements, we need to hold such asshats accountable, because even if they aren’t directly employed by oppressive states, they’re still doing the work of those states.

    Anyhow, I’m willing to bet that a lawyer would disagree with me on at least one or two of the guys wo have fucked you around, but you should probably name names. Not only name names, but call them out for not just undermining you and your work, but working more generally to undermine the same civil liberties that you’re trying to promote with cryptoparties.

    I’d like to know who these people are, so I can avoid associating with them, and I suspect that others would too.

  113. Aaron #
    January 10, 2013

    The issue is that a lot of hackers are where they are because they’ve been invisible to the ladies in their lives, girl problems are the root of this phenomenon, and manning up is perhaps the most plausible solution.

    I take it upon myself to be as shining an example as possible of the exception to the rule, I’m not perfect but “I’m trying!”.

  114. January 22, 2013

    You’ve just given me quite a bit of inspiration just now, Asher. I’ve gone through so much of this similarly in the last year, as specially the last few months, that I’ve not even been able to put it all into one place.

    There’s so much wrong with the hacker community.

    I’ve watched many of my dreams crumble as so many of my efforts have been hijacked and mis-used. It all seems as such a bad screen play, and i’m just not quite as elequent with explaining myself as you.

    Anyway, My experience has given me a unique point of view which is such that I feel I might understand quite well, yet only partially, what you’ve gone though.

    Much love and thanks to you for all you have done, and, keep fighting the good fight!

    Please feel free to hit me up anytime on twitter, though i’m not much in the way of forcing myself into anything anymore.

    Peace

  115. February 5, 2013

    Thanks for the marvelous posting! I definitely enjoyed reading it, you will be a great author.
    I will ensure that I bookmark your blog and definitely will come back down the road.
    I want to encourage you to continue your great work,
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  116. February 7, 2013

    Hey, you used to write excellent, but the last several posts have been kinda boring

  117. Juanito #
    February 18, 2013

    Dear Asher Wolf, go back to the kitchen.

  118. Scott McDicken #
    February 20, 2013

    ioerror wrote “The person that told me knows the person directly. My source told me the name of the person and the group name that I’ve since forgotten.”

    Do you habitually forget the names of other groups & ppl when you can’t back up your statement?

    @Asher: This post is epic, so much Win from the girls and so much Fail from the boys!

  119. Jeff #
    February 28, 2013

    Not reading all of this rambling femme-nonsense, but bitches need to stop invading male spaces and bitching that men act like men there. Stay the fuck out.

    • Starrynight #
      March 2, 2013

      I’m not aware of any incidents where female dogs have entered male toilets, men’s saunas, or men’s showers.

      Women are not bitches. Programming and gaming communities are not male spaces.

  120. yeahno #
    March 1, 2013

    tl:dr

    f-you!

  121. March 1, 2013

    Very soon this web page will be famous amid all blog users, due to it’s fastidious articles

  122. March 5, 2013

    This was a priceless public service, thank you. It also displays your talent for writing and journalism that is wasted on these nasty hacker boys, you should move on to larger topics.

    http://3dblogger.typepad.com/wired_state/2013/03/does-it-ever-feel-like-youre-playing-at-being-a-superhero.html

    I first began criticizing the CryptoParty when I stumbled on some stupid kid hawking it on Twitter because looking at the websites and wikis, I could see it was the same old bolshevik-style cadre organizations with the same old political struggles and bolshevik methods. Awful stuff. We really need to leave the Soviet Union behind, kids. It’s been 20 years. And 150 years since Marx started writing this crap in his musty library. The world has fought many good fights for democracy and true liberal values then, and you’re missing them by clinging to your sectarian trash here.

    Everything you write about is what I’ve written about for 10 years — the brutal, misogynist (and I could add — racist and anti-gay) culture of the white hacker movement; the rigid totalitarian control; the cynical abuse of resources and even theft and deception; the struggle for power. But none of this is surprising because technocommunist outfits always struggle for power.

    You also never asked whether the masses really need to be cryptified. What the hell are you hiding, kids?

    • Josh #
      March 8, 2013

      Why do you complain about kids acting like kids (totalitarian control, abuse of resources, theft, etc), but continue to denigrate them and expect different behaviour?

      I don’t know what you’ve written exactly for 10 years, but when someone comes along and calls me a kid it is difficult for my “adult” to control my “inner child”. Between this comment, your link, and other posts on your site, my “inner child” feels very threatened indeed.

      You’ve clearly got the emotive writing down pat, although I don’t know why you are attacking Marx with a “musty library” ( and again with “its been 20 years. And 150 years” are you trying to play the “old fashioned” card?), but perhaps if you really do want these “kids” to leave behind the soviet union you could continue writing emotively but in ways that would gain the support of the “inner child”ren of these “kids”?

      Even just having less … threatening titles. “ever feel.. a superhero” conveys to me that you think superhero’s are childish, and even more so that not only is it childish, but that it is the sole domain of “guys” (” (ok, maybe one or two gals)”) and that it is a game they are “playing at” (another childish thing, adults don’t play games after all do they?), and that they should therefore stop playing games and ‘grow up’ as it were. I don’t know about you, but I’d say most guys, let alone most hacker guys, would be feeling pretty threatened after that, and that is before they even read the article. You’ll never get people to grow and change if you stick them in “inner child” mode before you even begin to talk about the problem. (the problem being, at its core, threatened kids acting like threatened kids, brutal misogynist thieving power struggling is just a manifestation of that)

      I might be reading too much into your comment and articles, but if that’s the impression I get from 5 minutes of your written word, I’d think it is safe to say most other readers would probably be reacting similarly. Have a look at “Transactional Analysis by Eric Berne” if you’re interested, although that might be handing you more ammunition in your war against “Bolshevik Soviet Union kids” :P

      • March 11, 2013

        *Blinks*.

        Oh, dear. I thought we’d left “Transactional Analysis” back in the 1960s with “I’m Okay, You’re Okay,” and “The Celestine Prophecy” and all that other hapless dreck.

        Here’s a good quick outline of this cult and the other Silicon Valley “human potential” cults:

        http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?4,52892,52935

        I didn’t realize they were still around 50 years later. That’s scary.

    • March 10, 2013

      Did you really write “Technocommunists”?

      OK, retorical question, to show how you made me giggle.

      Next step: Mutated Techno-Communist Traitors. Oh well, that’s trusty old Paranoia – a great read which you should really enjoy one of these days: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia_%28role-playing_game%29

      Back to serious…

      If you see that the world goes down and you see a way how you could do something against that, you have 3 options:

      1. Ignore it. If we all do that, then the world will definitely go down.
      2. Take the way you see and fight. You might accomplish something that way.
      3. Try to find better ways. You might find a better way, or you might just end up doing nothing and let the world go down.

      Naturally you can combine 2 and 3: Take the way you see but keep looking for other ways which might be more effective. If you do that, you have to be careful to remind yourself what it is you want to achieve to avoid getting corrupted and switching to a seemingly more effective way which in reality undermines your longterm goals but seems to reach short-term goals.

      That you end with the “nothing to hide” argument sadly shows to me that you lost your way at some point. There’s a good rebuttal for that, which you might want to read, because it does not use the answer “everyone has something to hide”, but rather focusses on the effects of information processing, aggregation, reduction and false inference – along with an imbalance of power between those who collect information and those about whom information is being collected. Maybe that can help you understand, why people should encrypt their data: http://chronicle.com/article/Why-Privacy-Matters-Even-if/127461/

      • March 13, 2013

        Yes, I really did, dear. And it’s a real term — Google it. And long before me, Kevin Kelly at Wired or Jaron Lanier were using similar terms. It’s not about paranoia, it’s about calling out the bad collectivist and anarchist ideologies in the hacker movement that were destructive 100 years ago and still are as ideas. You can only giggle if you haven’t really studied the history of the communist movement and its effects around the world.

        The rest of your note seems to be about you thinking you have an opportunity to spout what you believe in once again, but it’s not persuasive and isn’t even coherent. Sure, some people need to encrypt stuff — like victims of domestic violence or activists in Belarus or journalists in Syria. But you aren’t any of those things, are you. And the CryptoParty is mainly made up of affluent white kids for the most part who don’t have any objective need to hide from the Man who in fact supports some of them rather well in their council flats and university berths. So it’s pretty fake. Real people who encrypt don’t need a Party and don’t need Julian Assange and OWS to help them.

        The world isn’t going down. It’s up. It’s running. You’re going down the rabbit hole yourself, however. I don’t make the “nothing to hide” argument, even though I don’t. I make the argument that transparency isn’t just for me and not thee, and that you need to be accountable. You aren’t.

        • David Moser #
          March 19, 2013

          I really dislike getting involved in someone else’s issues, but I have been following this, and you, Catherine, and you, Asher, for some time. Put up an apology for hacker idiot male behavior somewhere above in comments (probably under another name, I don’t remember).

          Anyway.

          This is important to me, and to others, I think. No one gets to read anything of mine without my express permission. So I encrypt a lot of stuff. I have absolutely nothing to “hide” from anyone. Except that what’s mine is mine and no one else gets to look at it unless I say so. It’s private.

          I am no communist, and do not join with any of the hacker collectives, or whatever they call themselves. I write software, play music, and write (hah!) articles and poetry for a living, and ’cause I like to. I don’t pirate anything. I don’t hack anyone’s computer or network unless they explicitly ask me to in the course of my paid employment. I vote. I talk to my friends. When I do so publicly, it is public. When I do so privately, it is encrypted. My “need to hide” is precisely why I do, and it is not your (or anyone’s) call whether I should, or should be able to. Or whether anyone is being “transparent” or not. It’s their choice to be, or not, and to group together with others who choose to be, or not, or whatever else.

          My privacy is incredibly important to me, and, I suspect, to many other law-abiding individuals. We get to encrypt whatever we want, and kudos to AW for helping, in whatever way, to make it possible for people who otherwise might not have the technical skills.

          Catherine, your discussions of communism, while important, do nothing to enhance the discussions of privacy and encryption, which are important to everyone — not just law-breakers. The strength of our society, and any other, I believe, is in the freedom of the individuals that comprise it, and the responsibilities they each, as individuals, espouse. But no one — and I mean no entity, governmental or otherwise — gets to decide for any individual what their freedom consists of, nor what their responsibilities shall be. We each and all make agreements (social contracts, if you will) that allow us to live in the company we each choose to keep. I would argue that our society is, at best, fractured and divisive; but it is the one I have chosen. I do not choose, for any reason, to break it down more, or to alter it. I feel my efforts are better spent elsewhere. But if I did so choose, it is my right to keep such efforts secret, in a “democratic” society such as ours, and resist the attempt of anyone to investigate.

          So, I did not intent this to go on at the length that it has (and I have); I obviously have even stronger feelings about it than I realized. Please feel free to reply on another venue if you would like to continue the discussion. I value both of your opinions (CF and AW), and I am easily find-able online.

        • March 19, 2013

          You don’t know me. You don’t know wether there are things I do not know, and therefore your mock question is beneath the threshold of getting an answer – except for calling out your tactic.

          You fear communism, yet the ones who ruin western countries at the moment are the 1% rich people. Maybe you should overthink what you fear. Look at the economical crises we now regularly get. That is a sign of a society going down.

          And for the effects of the communists movement: I live in Germany and we profited a lot from the fear the USA had towards communism: That fear made them help us develop a really strong economy to show the communists that capitalism is better. Now communism is mostly gone, that fear is gone and you see where the western world is headed. Or maybe you don’t. In that case, just watch the news.

        • Josh #
          March 22, 2013

          Actually let me ask you one further question, do you have blinds? And do you use them for anything other than light/heat control?

  123. estelle #
    March 20, 2013

    Good luck and stay strong !

  124. moderateGuy #
    March 29, 2013

    Seriously?! Gender sensitivity training for hackers?

  125. March 30, 2013

    I am sure this piece of writing has touched
    all the internet viewers, its really really pleasant paragraph on building up new web site.

  126. UsedToBeBystander #
    April 5, 2013

    I shall standby no more. Thanks, and good luck.

  127. April 17, 2013

    that the crappiest history i ear since anita Sarkeesian
    all this crappy geek don’t have a brain, i’m a geek almost nerd an i see everyday harassment against the women in my job an everywhere in geek community.
    last year in game tournament three women are present, the two first days many “gamers say what size of your tis what size of your pant and tha question gone bad when hours pass.
    third day i’m so tired to ear these shit and i take three geek an break their face with computer.
    result no tournament for me for 1 year but it make me relax after i shoot these assholes.
    so the women say me thank so much and now when i go in a tournament nobody try to fuck up the women when i’m here.
    i so sad to have only this solution to resolve the harassment problem.

  128. Rx #
    April 19, 2013

    You will not be missed. In fact, all who loath complaining shall rejoice.

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